The Student Room Group

A "no cease fire" policy?

Am I alone in finding Bush and Blair's position of not wanting (to back) a cease fire in Lebanon until a permanent resolution is found a bit peculiar? "You mustn't stop now - you must carry on bombing one another until we have a permanent solution" seems very bizarre to me.

Surely its better to have a cease fire that is temporary and ultimately fails than not to have one at all isn't it? Apparently not.

On a different note, I see Blair is in Washington today. Does anybody else find Blair's willingness to be treated like Bush's kid brother (Yo Blair) a bit embarrassing? If I were PM nobody, but nobody, would "yo" me.

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howard is my homeboy
Reply 2
I find it ridiculous - the only argument I have heard that borders on credible is that a "cease fire" is not actually going to happen - so calling for one, or worse, declaring one, does nothing more than make everyone look helpless and ineffectual.
Reply 3
Lawz-
I find it ridiculous - the only argument I have heard that borders on credible is that a "cease fire" is not actually going to happen - so calling for one, or worse, declaring one, does nothing more than make everyone look helpless and ineffectual.


It is ridiculous and that argument seems extraordinarily defeatist - certainly not the sort of argument I'd expect from any senior statesman acting in a diplomatic role. I can't see that a call for cease fire would hurt even if it did fall on death ears.
Reply 4
Howard
But, that's a bit defeatist isn't it? Not really the sort of argument I'd expect from professional diplomats. I can't see that a call for cease fire would hurt even if it did fall on death ears.


Well I suppose their point of view would be that if they ARE ineffectual (they being the other world powers) it would be pretty dumb to actually act in a way that proves it.

I'm playing devil's advocate here.
Kano the Magnificent
howard is my homeboy

:eek3: A Mortal Kombat fan! :biggrin: Agree with Howard's view...
Reply 6
Fall on death ears was a deliberate pun? :biggrin:
Howard
Surely its better to have a cease fire that is temporary and ultimately fails than not to have one at all isn't it? Apparently not.

Apparently not, indeed. If a ceasefire is declared that allows a return to the pre-conflict status quo, then a future conflict, more deadly and destructive than this one, is quite inevitable. If you allow Hezbollah to re-group and re-arm with more lethal Syrian and Iranian weapons, then 1, 2 or 5 years down the line this will happen again and this whole conflict would have been utterly in vain and we will see death and destruction on a larger scale than now. Things need to change on the ground, the situation needs resolving in some way, rushing to simply stop the firing will help no-one in the medium-long term, even if it saves lives now.
How do you propose stopping Hezbollah, or its replacement, from re arming? At issue here are material grievances which are not being addressed, and which, in my view, continue to ignite conflict.
dismal_laundry
How do you propose stopping Hezbollah, or its replacement, from re arming?

A proper multinational force in Lebanon that actually DOES SOMETHING? The Lebanese government actually taking control of land that is theirs but Hezbollah runs? Basically, Resolution 1559 - with guns.
Reply 10
Lawz-
Fall on death ears was a deliberate pun? :biggrin:


Haha! No, just me demenstrating that I can't spel.....:smile:
Reply 11
JonathanH
Things need to change on the ground, the situation needs resolving in some way, rushing to simply stop the firing will help no-one in the medium-long term, even if it saves lives now.


Surely it would help the person whose life was saved?

Joking aside, I take on board your point but I cannot see any harm in a "call (to both sides) for peace".
Howard
Surely it would help the person whose life was saved?

And does it help them in the medium-long term to have them, their family and their country subjected to even heavier attack in future? A cease-fire now with no proper resolution will simply lead to future conflict which will be more destructive, trying to save some lives now will lead to many more dead in the relatively near future. And if that's the unhappy choice, I'd rather see future conflict and even higher future death tolls averted even if it means some more fighting now. A ceasefire will make every death so far completely in vain and set the stage for more. Better to accept the death and destruction so far and make sure some purpose is achieved and future conflict is prevented.
Howard
Joking aside, I take on board your point but I cannot see any harm in a "call (to both sides) for peace".

Never mistake a 'ceasefire' for 'peace'. At the moment the calls are for a ceasefire, because no-one realistically believes in achievable peace. Ironically, a ceasefire will make the chances of future peace even slimmer and more distant, because it will leave things as they are.
Reply 14
JonathanH
And does it help them in the medium-long term to have them, their family and their country subjected to even heavier attack in future? A cease-fire now with no proper resolution will simply lead to future conflict which will be more destructive, trying to save some lives now will lead to many more dead in the relatively near future. And if that's the unhappy choice, I'd rather see future conflict and even higher future death tolls averted even if it means some more fighting now. A ceasefire will make every death so far completely in vain and set the stage for more. Better to accept the death and destruction so far and make sure some purpose is achieved and future conflict is prevented.


It personally it would help me a great deal not to be dead. Besides, you are speculating that a temporary cease fire today would sow the seeds for greater future conflict. That's not necessarily the case.
Reply 15
JonathanH
Never mistake a 'ceasefire' for 'peace'.


My bad.
Howard
Besides, you are speculating that a temporary cease fire today would sow the seeds for greater future conflict. That's not necessarily the case.

Hezbollah is dedicated to Israel's destruction. A ceasefire called before Israel damages and weakens them enough for the Lebanese Army or a Multinational force to be able to suppress and dismantle them will simply lead to the inevitable re-rise of Hezbollah and more conflict. It would also sow the seeds of Hezbollah fighting with the Lebanese Army or Multinational Forces, something that would lead to high death tolls. Ironically enough, only Bush, Blair, Olmert, Harper (for all the criticism of them) and a few others seem to be able to see that - the UN would seemingly prefer a higher death toll then, than a proper resolution now. I think we live in a world that would rather bury its head in the sand than face the difficult problems that are there.
Howard
My bad.

There have been numerous supposed 'ceasefires' with the palestinian terror groups, most of them unilaterally declared (not that Israel wasn't stills topping dozens of attempted ttacks a day during them) - all that happens is they re-arm, re-group and then after a while find some excuse to start it all off again.
Reply 18
JonathanH
Hezbollah is dedicated to Israel's destruction. A ceasefire called before Israel damages and weakens them enough for the Lebanese Army or a Multinational force to be able to suppress and dismantle them will simply lead to the inevitable re-rise of Hezbollah and more conflict. It would also sow the seeds of Hezbollah fighting with the Lebanese Army or Multinational Forces, something that would lead to high death tolls. Ironically enough, only Bush, Blair, Olmert, Harper (for all the criticism of them) and a few others seem to be able to see that - the UN would seemingly prefer a higher death toll then, than a proper resolution now. I think we live in a world that would rather bury its head in the sand than face the difficult problems that are there.


Do you think a multi-national force is ever going to enter the fray and disarm Hezbollah? I can't imagine there will be many volunteers for that little venture.
Reply 19
JonathanH
There have been numerous supposed 'ceasefires' with the palestinian terror groups, most of them unilaterally declared (not that Israel wasn't stills topping dozens of attempted ttacks a day during them) - all that happens is they re-arm, re-group and then after a while find some excuse to start it all off again.


But there have also been numerous cease-fires throughout the world that have translated into lasting peace.

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