Tillybop
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Ok this is a weird thought I had - I googled it and it suggests that people have actually studied this. I was thinking about plants - they grow and their cell divide, they respond to stimuli (such as phototropisms and geotropisms and everything). So if they do all of this - can they have feelings. Obviously they don't have little brains or anything, but can they feel and respond to pain - if they can respond to light and stuff then maybe it's possible.

Just wondered what everyone else thought about it.

Edit: I read this - it was interesting: http://www.theguardian.com/notesandq...-83446,00.html

Edit 2:

I realise that this is a totally mad idea, but actually I think it does have some proof to it. Plants are living, therefore just like us they must have some way of feeling pain.

I don't think they understand concepts or have thoughts, but I think they have the ability to feel - the link above said they can feel pain so it's totally possible I'd say.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Tilly-Elizabeth)
Ok this is a weird thought I had - I googled it and it suggests that people have actually studied this. I was thinking about plants - they grow and their cell divide, they respond to stimuli (such as phototropisms and geotropisms and everything). So if they do all of this - can they have feelings. Obviously they don't have little brains or anything, but can they feel and respond to pain - if they can respond to light and stuff then maybe it's possible.

Just wondered what everyone else thought about it.
As far as I know, based on biology, plants can respond to any stimulus equivalent to pain in animals, by a variety of mechanisms. There isn't any seperate center, like we humans have nociceptors, to sense pain, or for that matter, any other "feeling".
I think this can lead us to define feeling. Is it simply stimulus as a burst of energy, or something else. Biologically, it might be possible, but then I never really turned my thoughts to plants. I guess I should.
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Kallisto
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I believe in feelings of plants. I can remember me that plants were connected to a measurement instrument to find out, if plants are able to answer when people begins to talk to them. I don't know what a kind of measurement instrument it was, but the results have shown up that plants are able to give an answer to people.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Kallisto)
I believe in feelings of plants. I can remember me that plants were connected to a measurement instrument to find out, if plants are able to answer when people begins to talk to them. I don't know what a kind of measurement instrument it was, but the results have shown up that plants are able to give an answer to people.
I never heard about that experiment. Is there a link where I can read up on it?
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Dynamo123)
I never heard about that experiment. Is there a link where I can read up on it?
Unfortunately, I have not found a link so far. But to be a little bit more exactly: the measurement instrument is designed to draw curves. No cosine or sine curves, just curves as in a seismograph. As written before plants were connected to this measurement instrument. When people talk to them, the curve has shown a peak which was an evidence for feelings.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Kallisto)
Unfortunately, I have not found a link so far. But to be a little bit more exactly: the measurement instrument is designed to draw curves. No cosine or sine curves, just curves as in a seismograph. As written before plants were connected to this measurement instrument. When people talk to them, the curve has shown a peak which was an evidence for feelings.
Um, doesnt it sound a bit vague? I mean, the graph could have recorded any other process?
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Dynamo123)
Um, doesnt it sound a bit vague? I mean, the graph could have recorded any other process?
Now that you mention it, yes the measurement instrument could have recorded an other process during measuring. Nevertheless it is a sign of response. If plants are able to response in their surrounding, then it is a sign of feeling something no matter what it was. Or am I wrong in my consideration?
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Kallisto)
Now that you mention it, yes the measurement instrument could have recorded an other process during measuring. Nevertheless it is a sign of response. If plants are able to response in their surrounding, then it is a sign of feeling something no matter what it was. Or am I wrong in my consideration?
Well, the instrument might be actually measuring a response independent of surroundings.
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Dynamo123)
Well, the instrument might be actually measuring a response independent of surroundings.
Good news for you. I have found out what the measurement instrument was: a lie detektor. If you want to know more, look for Cleve Backster. He made plants experiments with dragon trees in the 60s. It is very interesting.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Kallisto)
Good news for you. I have found out what the measurement instrument was: a lie detektor. If you want to know more, look for Cleve Backster. He made plants experiments with dragon trees in the 60s. It is very interesting.
Ah. I'll search up on it and get back.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Kallisto)
Good news for you. I have found out what the measurement instrument was: a lie detektor. If you want to know more, look for Cleve Backster. He made plants experiments with dragon trees in the 60s. It is very interesting.
Well, the claim is interesting, but as far as my primary research shows, it is unfounded technically. To quote only wikipedia (which in this case is referenced properly) scientists tried similar experiments, but they found nothing to verify Backster's claims. I still think that plants do not respond as if they were conscious. Since they do not have a Nervous system, therefore at the best their responses can be characterized well by changes at molecular level.
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LittleBoxes
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Yes they do, and I'm not just saying that because the tree outside made me. :ahee:
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Kallisto
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(Original post by Dynamo123)
x
Yeah, Backster's experiments are controversial indeed. But what about a venus flytrap? this plant eats flies when flies land on the "mouth". It is known that the mechanism of catching the prey is caused by a stimulus. Is a stimulus not a sign of feeling, even if it is not comparable to human feelings? Are some plants able to show feelings in a certain degree after all?
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Abbyr
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Wait, what?
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the bear
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In days of yore trees were given greater respect than today:

How serious that worship was in former times may
be gathered from the ferocious penalty appointed by the old
German laws for such as dared to peel the bark of a
standing tree. The culprit's navel was to be cut out and
nailed to the part of the tree which he had peeled, and he
was to be driven round and round the tree till all his guts
were wound about its trunk. 5 The intention of the punish-
ment clearly was to replace the dead bark by a living
substitute taken from the culprit ; it was a life for a life, the
life of a man for the life of a tree.

from The Golden Bough

in Finland they look after their trees:

sacred trees to which offerings are brought are still not very uncommon.
On some firs the skulls of bears are nailed :eek:
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moonriver96
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Hehee this thread title made me laugh But still a good question though.
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cuckoo99
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I saw on a documentary once about plants having the ability to fear lol and also some studies have shown that plants grow faster when certain types of music is played to them lol. The experiment about fear was a bit :s they basicaly had all these different probes attached to this plant and whenever the guy went to try and cut a leaf there would be a spike of activity on this meter. Was along time ago when i watched it so cant remember the full details.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by the bear)
In days of yore trees were given greater respect than today:

How serious that worship was in former times may
be gathered from the ferocious penalty appointed by the old
German laws for such as dared to peel the bark of a
standing tree. The culprit's navel was to be cut out and
nailed to the part of the tree which he had peeled, and he
was to be driven round and round the tree till all his guts
were wound about its trunk. 5 The intention of the punish-
ment clearly was to replace the dead bark by a living
substitute taken from the culprit ; it was a life for a life, the
life of a man for the life of a tree.

from The Golden Bough

in Finland they look after their trees:

sacred trees to which offerings are brought are still not very uncommon.
On some firs the skulls of bears are nailed :eek:
I guess we were discussing the biological POV on plant feelings, not their sacredness.
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Dynamo123
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(Original post by Kallisto)
Yeah, Backster's experiments are controversial indeed. But what about a venus flytrap? this plant eats flies when flies land on the "mouth". It is known that the mechanism of catching the prey is caused by a stimulus. Is a stimulus not a sign of feeling, even if it is not comparable to human feelings? Are some plants able to show feelings in a certain degree after all?
Um, technically, I'd define stimulus as a form of energy, and not as a feeling in the human connotation of the word?
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the bear
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(Original post by Dynamo123)
I guess we were discussing the biological POV on plant feelings, not their sacredness.
i guess the trees felt pretty chuffed being worshipped and all
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