David Cameron releases the EU reforms he wants and they are rubbish

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Ace123
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He lists 7 areas he wants reformed:

1- New controls to stop “vast migrations” across the continent when new countries join the EU;
2-Tighter immigration rules to ensure that migrants come to Britain to work, not as tourists planning to cash in on “free benefits”;
3-A new power for groups of national parliaments to work together to block unwanted European legislation;
4-Businesses to be freed from red tape and “excessive interference” from Brussels, and given access to new markets through “turbo charging” free trade deals with America and Asia;
5-British police and courts liberated from “unnecessary interference” from the European Court of Human Rights;
6-More power “flowing away” from Brussels to Britain and other member states, rather than increasingly centralising laws in the EU;
7-Abolishing the principle of “ever closer union” among EU member states, which Mr Cameron says is “not right for Britain”.

This is seriously delusional for a start most of these things would be illegal and against the core EU principles and even if they were legal how can he ever get all the other nations to agree. Cannot see the poor Eastern nations agreeing to limiting immigration or stopping their people claiming UK benefits can you?

In addition these reforms miss many key areas that need reform e.g. budget contribution, CAP, fishing, EU budget structure

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...-a-new-EU.html
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Studentus-anonymous
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It's pointless anyway. The EU won;t reform under anything less than the most duress.

The EU's democratic credentials and accountability is wanting, and if it's proving to be opposing to UK interests and the integrity of it's sovereignty than the common sense solution is to leave.

Preferably while it still can.
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MindTheGaps
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In theory the ideal situation would be a radically reformed, streamlined and reduced EU. But, realistically, this is never going to happen. This is a fairly pointless PR-exercise to try to win over just enough sceptics to win A. the election and B. a referendum on EU membership. Even if Cameron gets everything he's asking for, the significant innate pressure within the EU towards ever-closer-integration means that these reforms are likely to be worthless in the long run anyway. Reality is we will never have any significant change in our relationship with the EU without leaving.
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Idle
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While I like the idea of the EU it has been implemented horribly wrong, it should be compulsory for a referendum in each country when major treaties such as Lisbon go through that radically change the EU.

I am all for free trade and making it easier to travel between EU countries but there have to be limits. Ultimately since we signed up to it we aren't going to be able to get changes to the extent that many desire and so I feel we would be better off going it alone and just staying in the European Economic Area like Norway.
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Mockery
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1. He won't necessarily get this. He may be able to increase the 'probation' period but direct caps on the numbers making the transition will simply be seen as unacceptable by the rest of the EU.

2. Very feasible, Merkel has made it clear that this is an issue Germany might have to side with Britain over.

3. National parliaments do need such power and with the growing eurosceptism in a lot of countries this may be a formality.

4. Would be beneficial for countries such as ourselves, but would it be so for smaller economic powers in Europe?

5. Necessary but I doubt we'll get much flexibility from Brussels here, an outright refusal to adhere to the European Court of Human Rights won't be possible. Might be more feasible adding a system that allows us to refuse laws on a case by case level.

6. Won't get.

7. Won't get.
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DaveSmith99
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Everyone already knows he isn't going to get any concessions, this is just a "well I tried" exercise. His reforms are rubbish as well, the ECHR isn't even apart of the EU.
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InnerTemple
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Pretty typical that almost every point is basically the stuff the Daily Mail moans about all the time.

1) Stop all the immigrants - 'nuff said

2) Stop all the ones that do come here from nicking our benefits - figures suggest EU migrants contribute more than they take, but don't let this get in the way of looking tough on Europe

3) Stop them making all our laws - UKIP reckon they make 73% of our laws. While this figure is false, I'm a Tory trying to please my backbenchers and I am outraged regardless

4) ...

5) Stop the 'uman rights from ruining our lives - despite the ECHR not being part of the EU, and the tiny number of successful appeals against us, we should stop "unnecessary" interferance - the government gets to decide what constitutes 'unnecessary'...

Poor show.
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No Man
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Asking/suggesting nicely doesn't work when it comes to the EU commission.

They might change their ways if enough euroskeptic & eurocynic parties get in power, which is possible.
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mojojojo101
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1. Free movement is not up for discussion, pointless to even try.

2. Seems to be support for this elsewhere, will not be anywhere near what some euro sceptics want.

3.Pretty sure this power already exists...

4. 'Cut red tape' doesn't really mean anything, if he means things like WTD ( which UK ignores anyway afaik) then he wont get much movement.

5. Nothing to do with EU, seems strange for him to even propose it.

6. Might get some support in countries with high anti-EU elements, don't think he'll get unanimous agreement though.

7. Founding principal of the EU, not up for discussion.

So instead of trying to actually affect significant reform he has chosen to pick areas which are not up for discussion, where he cant win in an attempt to placate his backbenchers / deflect attention from UKIP... Typical Cameron to be fair.
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Ace123
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
1. Free movement is not up for discussion, pointless to even try.

2. Seems to be support for this elsewhere, will not be anywhere near what some euro sceptics want.

3.Pretty sure this power already exists...

4. 'Cut red tape' doesn't really mean anything, if he means things like WTD ( which UK ignores anyway afaik) then he wont get much movement.

5. Nothing to do with EU, seems strange for him to even propose it.

6. Might get some support in countries with high anti-EU elements, don't think he'll get unanimous agreement though.

7. Founding principal of the EU, not up for discussion.

So instead of trying to actually affect significant reform he has chosen to pick areas which are not up for discussion, where he cant win in an attempt to placate his backbenchers / deflect attention from UKIP... Typical Cameron to be fair.
2- you are right there is some support for this but it has to be complete agreement from all states and the poorer countries will never agree

3- this power does not exist the UK cannot block EU law unless a majority of MEP's vote against and the UK is normall outvoted e.g. EU budget

5- it is to do with the EU because all members of the EU have to be a member and obey the European Court of Human Rights, you cannot be an EU member and not obey the ECHR

6- again the problem is you would need unanimous agreement which will never happen
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by Ace123)
3- this power does not exist the UK cannot block EU law unless a majority of MEP's vote against and the UK is normall outvoted e.g. EU budget

5- it is to do with the EU because all members of the EU have to be a member and obey the European Court of Human Rights, you cannot be an EU member and not obey the ECHR
3 - Wasn't sure on that to be fair, for the record I don't think national governments you have the ability to veto the democratic processes of the EU parliament without at least majority of nation states being opposed to it.

5 - If he wants reform to the ECHR he needs to campaign on that issue, not lying to the electorate, telling him that negotiating with the EU can change that. If he wants to negotiate how the EU and ECHR interact then that's a seperate issue, it won't happen though.
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ChaoticButterfly
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We should hand all our power to the EU commissars.
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Falcatas
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Cameron has no chance of this. If he had any integrity he would actively campaign for us to leave the EU when he fails, however he doesn't.

He will fail to get his desired reforms and still want to remain in the EU because he is a weak inept leader.
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Yi-Ge-Ningderen
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The issues that most people are against will not be changed, negotiations are pointless and a waste of time. LEAVE NOW.
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Snagprophet
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How dare he stop migrants from the third world coming to work here driving down the cost of employment wages.
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Assassinn
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Yups I pretty much agree renegotiation of fundamental aspects of what the EU is to suit the political agenda of the UK is useless.
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Skip_Snip
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I opened this thread ready to say "everything about Cameron is rubbish, what do you expect?"

And that holds true. But less immigration and less interference are things no-one can say are bad.
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Alfissti
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He won't get all of it, might get some watered down parts to each or some of it instead.

Negotiations is a fine art on its own, not sure if the current team would be whom I'd trust to get what is needed though.
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Rakas21
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Can't say i really support any of those proposals given that immigration brings a net benefit, Britain already outgrows most EU countries and that leaving a body which agrees or throws out cases relating to Britain in 97% of cases is absolutely idiotic.
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