Why is it mocked to want to change race but not sex?

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peasandqueues
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Why is it seen as a more 'obscure' or even funny that a person might want to change ethnicity or feel that they were 'born' a different race? Do you think this happens? I'm thinking of the media hysteria and mockery surrounding Michael Jackson.

On the other hand, transsexual procedures are vastly more accepted. Granted, not by all, but its generally seen as prejudiced to be against such a procedure.

What makes these two categories so different? They are both things you can't choose.


My two cents would be that its linked with family identification and bonding, but curious on your views? Do you think its a strange concept?
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iammeyouareyou
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Given that Michael Jackson is your example, I think it's more to do with the fact that issues of race are rooted in arguments about colonialism and imperialism etc. Historically, blacks (and other ethnic minorities) were always made to feel inferior or less-than-human because of the colour of their skin. So when a non-white person wants to change their colour it's viewed as some sort of deep-rooted self-hate. In other words, I think race is a much more complex issue than sex is.
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Maid Marian
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No idea, to be honest. Isn't the 'want to change sex' issue related to biological reasons though, whereas wanting to change race is just a preference? :dontknow:
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tengentoppa
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I suppose it's because there is a much larger difference between being a man and a woman and being a white man or a black man. For the latter, there should (theoretically) be no difference between the 2.
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455409
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Good question.
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Solemn Rain
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A very good question

but how can one change his race?
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EarthlingyThingy
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Very interesting question. I haven't actually considered this before. My answer would be that, equality is a long road process and we're only part-way down the line. Sexuality, LGBT rights and so-on, has exploded into the public eye by design and support groups for these causes are many. (However clearly equality isn't even fully experienced by these groups, yet. So, those who would feel a want or need to change race, unfortunately have a long way to go as to increase exposure for their cause.

But, biologically, I personally don't know what could cause a want to change race. But I would support a friends wish to do-so, with explanation... I think that it is AS understandable as it would be for a person to want to change sex; certainly no less so. I have consider what it would be like to be another race, but honestly I don't place enough importance on my racial identity, to have ever given much of a toss about the reality of race.

Sexuality is something else entirely for me, though.
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lougarou
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You're considering that there's significant biological differences between races. It's complicated. For all I know there could be a shift in opinion on this, but I think the consensus is its dangling far too close to racism, so the small outcry of the community is shut down quickly.
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kumon
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Because the reasons to make you want to change race, are due to oppressional reasons, ie thinking one race is better than the other, ie inferiority complex, whereas changing gender is more due to you physically not feeling right about it, I know boys that look like girls and feel that way, but a black person can't feel "white" because you can't feel a "skin colour".
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NathanW18
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That is a pretty good question. Never really thought about it.
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peasandqueues
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(Original post by kumon)
Because the reasons to make you want to change race, are due to oppressional reasons, ie thinking one race is better than the other, ie inferiority complex, whereas changing gender is more due to you physically not feeling right about it, I know boys that look like girls and feel that way, but a black person can't feel "white" because you can't feel a "skin colour".
Do you think a person can't identify with a different ethnicity more than their own (biological) ethnicity? For example (I know this is unlikely) but say a white person brought up in Africa by black Africans, and who is only ever surrounded by their small black community. Do you think they could feel disassociated? Not oppressed; just not feeling they can identify with their family and those that brought them up.
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peasandqueues
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I think most of the responses on here are considering situations similar to my example (where a black person wants to become white because of historical prejudice/bullying etc) but would you give a different response if it was a white person wanting to be black? I almost think that would provoke more mockery than MJ's case.

(Original post by lougarou)
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(Original post by iammeyouareyou)
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thesabbath
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(Original post by kumon)
Because the reasons to make you want to change race, are due to oppressional reasons, ie thinking one race is better than the other, ie inferiority complex, whereas changing gender is more due to you physically not feeling right about it, I know boys that look like girls and feel that way, but a black person can't feel "white" because you can't feel a "skin colour".
A couple of thoughts:

Consider abortion for instance. Some women use it to selectively eliminate babies of the wrong sex, but because it is a "human right" the thought process behind the decision is not deemed relevant. The inalienable right to abort supersedes one's reason for wishing to do so, no matter how against the spirit of the law or otherwise barbaric it may be considered.

This is in stark contrast to the notion of a "hate crime" (thought crime) where if one attacks (or is deemed to have offended) verbally or physically someone with a legally protected characteristic (http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/a...s-definitions/) one's innermost thoughts and beliefs at the time of the action are of paramount importance with respect to determining the severity of the offence.
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lougarou
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(Original post by peasandqueues)
I think most of the responses on here are considering situations similar to my example (where a black person wants to become white because of historical prejudice/bullying etc) but would you give a different response if it was a white person wanting to be black? I almost think that would provoke more mockery than MJ's case.
It would be about the same. It's nothing to do which way the traditionally associated power's shifting, its electing yourself as part of a history, ancestry and culture you are not a part of at best. Gender is far more flexible, personal, and your expression has nothing to do with other people, the physical changes are to go with the mental state you have or have always had. You don't need to change race to express yourself in any way other than as a member of that race. It's hard to distinguish without thinking about it. It's the difference between changing your name and adopting yourself into another family - figuratively, not to imply an identity change is just a name change by any means.
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thesabbath
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
I suppose it's because there is a much larger difference between being a man and a woman and being a white man or a black man. For the latter, there should (theoretically) be no difference between the 2.
Critical theorists and cultural deconstructionists dictate that there are no inherent differences between either men and women, or different races. Everyone is just a human.

It is sociological bunkum but for the meantime the proponents of political correctness and demanders of equality consider it expedient to pretend both of these things are true, whilst at the same time dividing segments of the population into little covens of identity politicised attributes to proclaim that their groups are, in spite of this, in some way hard done by in society according to the Marxist hierarchy of "need", and this must be coercively redressed.

Whilst pressure groups and NGOs are allowed to dominate our media we cannot sensibly debate these issues as a nation, and besides which, it doesn't matter, because the European rights courts will tell us what to do and believe anyway.
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username207685
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Michael Jackson had vitiligo.

Also, gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Are you sure anyone actually has a similar condition with race instead of gender?
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peasandqueues
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(Original post by betaglucowhat)
Michael Jackson had vitiligo.

Also, gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition. Are you sure anyone actually has a similar condition with race instead of gender?
well this is what I'm saying. If anyone did, do you think they'd likely be taken seriously? Do you think doctors would actually consider it a condition or laugh it off as a 'phase'? I don't think even if anyone DID have it that they'd be diagnosed and I don't think the condition has - or will for the time being - become recognised. Anyone who even slightly feels that way has probably learnt to hide such inclinations (or at least not voice them)


I'm sure long before sex change procedures and the recognition of gender dysphoria as a condition meant that many people were being mocked and told 'tough s**t' - thinking they might be the only ones
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DanB1991
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Well concerning sex you have the whole male/female braine debate, chromosomes etc.

With race there's no real biological support given by any kind of group. Quite often it seems to be associated with race shame or self racism.
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username207685
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(Original post by peasandqueues)
I'm sure long before sex change procedures and the recognition of gender dysphoria as a condition meant that many people were being mocked and told 'tough s**t' - thinking they might be the only ones
But long before it was legal, medically recognised, or even a little bit accepted we knew people felt like they were a different gender (lots of cultures historically even have had other defined genders e.g. the two-spirits of some North American indigenous cultures).

I'm not aware of anyone or any culture ever having an analogous situation with race. Are you?
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