Ronaldinho or Messi in their primes?

(Pele is the king obvs though)

Pele>Ronaldinho=Zidane>Messi>Ronaldo

Pele = 3 world cups
Ronaldinho = 1 world cup
Zidane = 1 world cup + epic headbutt
all in a tougher era without all this diving nonsense nowadays

Messi+Ronaldo = 0 world cups even with the bias of the referees towards attacking players these days i.e calling a foul if anyone gets touched

Might be better technically with the ball but he doesn't bring the numbers pele brings.
1366 apperances 1282 goals
For his ENTIRE career

I suggest you read up and look at the real numbers. It's closer to 500. Half of those 'league' goals were actually against poor regional teams, not teams in the national league -- it's the equivalent of Rooney scoring hat tricks against a Lancashire league including Burnley, FC United, Altrincham etc and counting them as Premier League goals.

Again you are just looking at numbers, not on the player's quality.

Pele is a senile old fraud.

Just a question, how many of those comparing Maradona, Pele, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Messi have watched them all play?

Why so much hate against Pele. If those numbers were inflated by playing in a weak league, surely his numbers would have dropped off at international level where his goal scoring and tournament winning record is exponentially better than messi's while playing in a harder period where the refs didn't blow for every sneeze

I've seen loads of Maradona, Messi, Ronaldinho and Ronaldo. Not as much of Pele, but the game advances and players naturally become better across the ages -- take sprinting for example, the world record goes down and down as sprinters/training improves.

The arguments for Pele are further weakened by his embellishment of his own achievements and knack of downplaying those of his team mates.

Messi is the best, it is obvious.

Well I've seen a lot of 3 of the 4 you mention, not Maradona, just some videos here and there.

What Maradona did with Napoli was utterly spectacular though, and he does look some player from the few videos I've seen.

I'm inclined to think Messi's the best, he's certainly the best I've seen, but its hard to compare across eras. When Maradona was in his pomp, tackles that result in 3 match bans were yellow card offenses + he played in arguably the greatest defensive era of Italian football in his prime.

I have no bad words for Maradona. He would probably make my top 3 based on what I've seen (though I don't want to overthink it), Forget the numbers, I'm talking naturally gifted footballers when a ball is on some grass.

I agree with comparing across eras too mate. I can accept people preferring the 'best of his generation' thing.

So what? The refs didn't blow for every sneeze -- the defenders were worse as well. And he was playing in the greatest international team of all time, or at least one of.

Also it's hilarious how people use the Xaviesta argument to discredit Messi, yet ignore the fact Pele wasn't even the star player in his Brazil teams.

who has the more natural talent?

Pele has 3 world cups and over a 1000 goals. Messi doesn't. simples!!

Pele has 3 world cups and over a 1000 goals. Messi doesn't. simples!!

Lampard > Zidane