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Feminism needs to stop arguing with itself

How can feminism move forward when it is too busy arguing with its own supporters? Too often people's own insecurities and resentments form the core of the discussion.

http://neuroticsanonymous.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/fractured-a-plea-from-a-male-feminist/

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Reply 1
I agree with a good deal of the points in the article. Not a fan of the tone in regards to men, but at least this guy isn't totally insufferable like most 'male-feminists' that blog.
Reply 2
Yeah it's a decent read. I agree for what it's worth, too.
Reply 3
Probably a lot to do with the fact Feminism is divided into sub groups i.e. radical feminists, liberal feminists etc. much like Christianity has split itself into various different branches. There are also famous individuals in certain factions who make a bad name for them.

**edited to add on that these sub groups are mostly divided on ways to approach relieving the oppression on women and any other negative results hewn down on anybody from a patriarchal society, including 'double standards' which mens rights activists go on and on and on about. Except for some radical feminists. Some of them just want to kill men, but that's a minority.
(edited 10 years ago)
Yeah I agree


Original post by Algorithm69
Feminists call other women "gender traitors" for not adhering to the dogma
The vast majority do not
Reply 5
Original post by Algorithm69
How can it? Like any religion it's founding texts are contradictory, vague, ambiguous, and open to interpretation and allows for people with widely different ideas to be termed "feminists". Division and derision was inevitable. It has a culture that I've only really ever seen in other religions and especially Marxism, where open hatred for dissenters or people of different denominations is seen as normal. Feminists call other women "gender traitors" for not adhering to the dogma, and God forbid you leave the movement, because then public slander and maybe even terrorism will become an issue for you (like it did for Erin Pizzey).

But I guess this is all part and parcel of "revolutionary" movements.




Although I do agree with some of what you have said I'm not sure why you feel the need to lump it into some far left wing movement. Forget the name "Feminism", aren't the rights of your mother or sister important to you? This should be as mainstream as it gets yet, as I think you have done here, is dismissed as extremist nonsense.
Original post by Algorithm69
How can it? Like any religion it's founding texts are contradictory, vague, ambiguous, and open to interpretation and allows for people with widely different ideas to be termed "feminists".




Oh so you're a great scholar of original biblical text are you? And open to interpretation? Tell me how else you could go about translating text dating to the 4th century CE? Or did you actually think the languge it was written in was more or less the same as modern day language.

:rolleyes:
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by Jetboy
Although I do agree with some of what you have said I'm not sure why you feel the need to lump it into some far left wing movement. Forget the name "Feminism", aren't the rights of your mother or sister important to you? This should be as mainstream as it gets yet, as I think you have done here, is dismissed as extremist nonsense.


Feminism does not have a monopoly on gender equality.
Reply 8
Original post by Bible
Probably a lot to do with the fact Feminism is divided into sub groups i.e. radical feminists, liberal feminists etc. much like Christianity has split itself into various different branches. There are also famous individuals in certain factions who make a bad name for them.

**edited to add on that these sub groups are mostly divided on ways to approach relieving the oppression on women and any other negative results hewn down on anybody from a patriarchal society, including 'double standards' which mens rights activists go on and on and on about. Except for some radical feminists. Some of them just want to kill men, but that's a minority.



I think all movements, protests and politics worth anything do this, I don't trust too much consensus but the fundamentals of feminism, or simply the rights of half the population, are dismissed and fractured beyond recognition.
The requirements for being counted as a feminist are quite loose. It's not surprising that feminists disagree with one another on specifics.
Reply 10
Original post by TurboCretin
The requirements for being counted as a feminist are quite loose. It's not surprising that feminists disagree with one another on specifics.



Yes, that is very true and is a healthy thing but it does seem to me that feminism has had worse press and less support than other mainstream movements, partly because of its participants.
Original post by Algorithm69
Feminists call other women "gender traitors" for not adhering to the dogma, and God forbid you leave the movement, because then public slander and maybe even terrorism will become an issue for you (like it did for Erin Pizzey).

But I guess this is all part and parcel of "revolutionary" movements.


Oh so just like Muslims think every fellow human who doesn't follow Islam should be punished?

And God forbid you leave Islam, because imminent death will become an issue for you.
Well seeing as the feminist movement is made up ofindividual feminists they're not all going to agree on the same things, just like all movements. It is not 'feminism arguing with itself', it's individuals having different opinions. It's nothing more than another social construction. Not all Christians think the same, not all conservatives think the same, not all work unions think the same because it is impossible for a whole group of people to have perfectly identical thoughts. Even the different sub-sections of feminism won't 100% agree on anything. It's not necessarily a negative criticism, it's just how it is.
Original post by SophiaKeuning
Oh so just like Muslims think every fellow human who doesn't follow Islam should be punished?

And God forbid you leave Islam, because imminent death will become an issue for you.


I'm actually failing to understand the point of both of your posts.
Original post by Algorithm69
I'm actually failing to understand the point of both of your posts.


Doesn't surprise me. Do you think such sweeping generalisations are acceptable within the context of Islam?


And how could you possibly not understand the first post?
(edited 10 years ago)
Original post by SophiaKeuning
Doesn't surprise me. Do you think such sweeping generalisations are acceptable within the context of Islam?


Well under Sharia the punishment for apostasy is widely accepted as death. But whatever.
Original post by Algorithm69
Well under Sharia the punishment for apostasy is widely accepted as death. But whatever.


So you're saying that most muslims on this site will adhere to that?
Reply 17
Original post by NeeceLondon
Well seeing as the feminist movement is made up ofindividual feminists they're not all going to agree on the same things, just like all movements. It is not 'feminism arguing with itself', it's individuals having different opinions. It's nothing more than another social construction. Not all Christians think the same, not all conservatives think the same, not all work unions think the same because it is impossible for a whole group of people to have perfectly identical thoughts. Even the different sub-sections of feminism won't 100% agree on anything. It's not necessarily a negative criticism, it's just how it is.



Yes absolutely and as I previously said, I do not trust movements that hold a complete consensus but with feminism, a cause that should be as mainstream and accepted as anti-racism has become, the fractures run deep. Some might hold deep rooted insecurities and resentments, some are plain self-righteous and some just like to dismiss anything that contains an ideal. whatever the reason it is particularly prone to disregard and in fighting.
Original post by SophiaKeuning
So you're saying that most muslims on this site will adhere to that?


You'd have to ask them. Look, if your argument here is that I've made sweeping generalisations then obviously I didn't mean every single feminist resorts to public shaming of "traitors". I didn't think that really needed to be said. But you can't deny that such a culture exists.
Original post by Jetboy
Yes absolutely and as I previously said, I do not trust movements that hold a complete consensus but with feminism, a cause that should be as mainstream and accepted as anti-racism has become, the fractures run deep. Some might hold deep rooted insecurities and resentments, some are plain self-righteous and some just like to dismiss anything that contains an ideal. whatever the reason it is particularly prone to disregard and in fighting.


I don't think feminism is any more prone than other movements or ideologies. It just happens to be targeted for this 'fractured' state. Many conservatives for 'traditional values' have very differing opinions. Similarly so does the LGBT movement.

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