Give us a truly fair and impartial student complaints system!

3

Original post

by buster12

Yes the internal appeal has finished, total white wash, I may aswell handed them a piece of toilet paper they just totally ignored all the evidence including hand written plans by my tutor, I failed because of the stuff she told me to remove. They just completely stitched me up. Sent back the letter of completion same day as they told me my appeal failed. My solicitor has issued the Pre action protocol letter last week after a number of letters have simply been brushed off, They have so far refused to comment as the internal complaint procedure is still ongoing. I think they are dragging their feet with that so I would run out of time. I will not give up as I have a little one depending on me. I also will not give up because I have done nothing wrong
This is what has brought me to tis website. Your advise has ben very interesting and I feel more able to continue now with this horrid process.

Thankyou so much

Remember once you file the claim in court you can always discontinue it at any point if the uni see sense and back down. In their shoes, letting you take the course again and offering some compensation seems much easier than going to court.

You will see whether they have any strong defence or not from their reply. Then before issuing the claim make certain you can refute their defence point by point. If necessary drop parts of your claim that it looks like they have defended successfully. Your solicitor will also do this, so what you eventually file in court are all solid grounds.

Reply 82

OP

7

What seems very clear to me, reading back through this thread, is that students are deliberately misled about their rights in law to a just and fair judicial process. It is not just a matter of whether they can afford to pursue it or not, but that it is not the students themselves that are making the decision whether they do so, and in which arena, i.e. OIA, or civil courts, or judicial review, or all, or none. Students are isolated, misled, lied to, run out of time, and treated like criminals and/or imbeciles by a system which is intent on using unfair and unlawful means by which to filter out students which it has deemed undesirable, for whatever reason. If that is not so, then why is it so difficult for students, finding themselves in this position, to not only come together, but to be able to reach out to others who are newly affected to enable them to share information and resources which would ensure them a better chance of successfully navigating this unlawfully weighted system.

I myself am very close to that six year cut-off point, mentioned, I think, by Deech, above. I have had no financial ability to pay anything, not even a couple of hundred pounds, throughout that time, for judicial review or anything else. I and my husband are currently living on his £45.00 pension, with no other income. We are finding it extremely difficult to get work, and have a repossession order on our home where we have lived for 25 years, because we can no longer pay the mortgage. The stress that we have suffered has caused my husband to have a significantly large heart attack a couple of months ago, and he is now on a large cocktail of medications to keep him alive. Instead of being able to recover in peace, he was forced to continue to seek work soon after he left hospital, because I was unsuccessful and finding it impossible to gain employment.

How is this a reasonable situation when we both have successfully been through the higher education system, and the university from which I graduated actually extols its high focus on the employability of its students?

I do not have the financial means to get my case into court. How is that a fair and impartial system? I have been severely psychologically damaged by this degrading and humiliating process. In that time, I have become seriously and severely clinically depressed. Yet, to acquire a fair outcome, I am supposed to find ridiculously high funds, risk massive costs if this obviously unfair system finds against me, deal with work which is the domain of highly paid, qualified lawyers, because those same lawyers cannot be trusted? And at the same time, the university in question need not worry themselves because they have access to a generous helping of public funds by which to hire world class legal representation to defend themselves against a (now) mentally ill student, who has in fact only become ill as a direct result of that university's vindictive actions? And what I am at a loss to understand is how the people posting here (who claim to be students) are accepting of such massive corruption. Did we get so sophisticated that we can now dispense with the bit in our courts and judicial procedures which required everyone, (including universities!) to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

On a personal level, I'm very grateful for the input from contributors such as Deech, who are helping to clarify things here for the few who have found this thread...but what about the rest? Those students who never make it here? Don't they deserve to know that they can take up their HE course with confidence, knowing that if something goes wrong and they have to complain, that they will not be lied to, in a manner which is fully intended to destroy their career? I am still fully of the opinion that the law needs to be changed and that we need to repeal the law which brings the OIA into existence. If they cannot make judicial decisions of the kind that are necessarily available to the courts in order that they can dispense true justice, then they have no right to be standing in front of those courts, like Cerberus, guarding access to Hades, dispenser of all earthly riches. Any law which allows them to do so is unjust and irrevocably corrupt.

I believe that this site, in setting itself up specifically as a place for students, and by also including access and in some cases moderation, by university staff, have a moral and ethical responsibility to the students it entices in here, to ensure that this issue is allowed to be covered fully. If that includes a call for a repeal of legislation which is unfair to students, then so be it.

Reply 83

8

Original post

by Megajules

What seems very clear to me, reading back through this thread, is that students are deliberately misled about their rights in law to a just and fair judicial process. It is not just a matter of whether they can afford to pursue it or not, but that it is not the students themselves that are making the decision whether they do so, and in which arena, i.e. OIA, or civil courts, or judicial review, or all, or none. Students are isolated, misled, lied to, run out of time, and treated like criminals and/or imbeciles by a system which is intent on using unfair and unlawful means by which to filter out students which it has deemed undesirable, for whatever reason. If that is not so, then why is it so difficult for students, finding themselves in this position, to not only come together, but to be able to reach out to others who are newly affected to enable them to share information and resources which would ensure them a better chance of successfully navigating this unlawfully weighted system.

I myself am very close to that six year cut-off point, mentioned, I think, by Deech, above. I have had no financial ability to pay anything, not even a couple of hundred pounds, throughout that time, for judicial review or anything else. I and my husband are currently living on his £45.00 pension, with no other income. We are finding it extremely difficult to get work, and have a repossession order on our home where we have lived for 25 years, because we can no longer pay the mortgage. The stress that we have suffered has caused my husband to have a significantly large heart attack a couple of months ago, and he is now on a large cocktail of medications to keep him alive. Instead of being able to recover in peace, he was forced to continue to seek work soon after he left hospital, because I was unsuccessful and finding it impossible to gain employment.

How is this a reasonable situation when we both have successfully been through the higher education system, and the university from which I graduated actually extols its high focus on the employability of its students?

I do not have the financial means to get my case into court. How is that a fair and impartial system? I have been severely psychologically damaged by this degrading and humiliating process. In that time, I have become seriously and severely clinically depressed. Yet, to acquire a fair outcome, I am supposed to find ridiculously high funds, risk massive costs if this obviously unfair system finds against me, deal with work which is the domain of highly paid, qualified lawyers, because those same lawyers cannot be trusted? And at the same time, the university in question need not worry themselves because they have access to a generous helping of public funds by which to hire world class legal representation to defend themselves against a (now) mentally ill student, who has in fact only become ill as a direct result of that university's vindictive actions? And what I am at a loss to understand is how the people posting here (who claim to be students) are accepting of such massive corruption. Did we get so sophisticated that we can now dispense with the bit in our courts and judicial procedures which required everyone, (including universities!) to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

On a personal level, I'm very grateful for the input from contributors such as Deech, who are helping to clarify things here for the few who have found this thread...but what about the rest? Those students who never make it here? Don't they deserve to know that they can take up their HE course with confidence, knowing that if something goes wrong and they have to complain, that they will not be lied to, in a manner which is fully intended to destroy their career? I am still fully of the opinion that the law needs to be changed and that we need to repeal the law which brings the OIA into existence. If they cannot make judicial decisions of the kind that are necessarily available to the courts in order that they can dispense true justice, then they have no right to be standing in front of those courts, like Cerberus, guarding access to Hades, dispenser of all earthly riches. Any law which allows them to do so is unjust and irrevocably corrupt.

I believe that this site, in setting itself up specifically as a place for students, and by also including access and in some cases moderation, by university staff, have a moral and ethical responsibility to the students it entices in here, to ensure that this issue is allowed to be covered fully. If that includes a call for a repeal of legislation which is unfair to students, then so be it.

I am so sorry that you have had a miserable time with the University Megajules, I don't understand though as you say you did graduate what was wrong? The universties are a law unto themselves and students need some truly independent means too have their cases looked into at an affordable cost. This is the only way that we can truly get justice for all.

Reply 84

3

The thing I'd do is have a website with all the information a student needs. Then lobby to have the universities give the link to students who make a complaint. Maybe a body like the QAA can force that to happen.

A bit like how at the end of the procedure the university is forced to direct the student to the OIA. Well at the start of the procedure, they should be forced to direct students to deech.com.

The biggest mistake an uninformed student will make is to think they are fighting for justice. Because they are sure of their case, they ignorantly go through the procedures on the belief justice will be done. By the time they realise things don't work like that, its too late and you could have fatally prejudiced your case by something as small as saying you agree with the way a hearing is to be conducted.

Students need to learn at the start that it is a procedural game, and they need to scrutinize every procedure the university follows. They need to know the OIA work the same way. And they need to know all the legal options and the implications of the case law.

That can all be compiled on a single website. The university will have a plan to white wash the complaint and manipulate the procedures accordingly. If you are wise to their tricks, then you call them out on it right away before they even hold the hearing or investigation. Their response will be silence at which point you win the game. Thats how you have to work to get justice.

Reply 85

OP

7

Original post

by buster12

I am so sorry that you have had a miserable time with the University Megajules, I don't understand though as you say you did graduate what was wrong? The universties are a law unto themselves and students need some truly independent means too have their cases looked into at an affordable cost. This is the only way that we can truly get justice for all.

Buster, you first need to understand what graduation means, in the eyes of those who matter. So, who matters?

At the point when I graduated, my family mattered, because they were the ones who had supported me throughout five years of study, as a mature student. That meant that, throughout that time, there was less money coming in to my household, as I had obviously given up the opportunity for full time work. It also meant that I had switched my focus, and had given up significant portions of what would otherwise have been my free time, (i.e. time to spend with them.) All these things are sacrifices which families of mature students willingly give up to enable their loved ones the chance of the greatest success in their HE endeavours. For them, my successful graduation is earmarked as a celebration of my success.

Shortly after graduation, those people who knew I had undertaken that course mattered. Those people in my own community, who ranged from friends, acquaintances, fellow students, former work colleagues and so on, whose perception of me would have inevitably influenced their level of acceptance of me as a person in their lives. These are typically the networks of local people around you who are fully able to gossip and speculate, and who can spread a rumour round your locality at twice the speed of light. They have no loyalty to anyone, and are fully able to turn an entire community for or against you in a heartbeat, if you do something to enhance, or violate, some unspoken community trust in who you are. Your social acceptability depends on your standing in a particular community. For these people, my successful graduation would be a subtle indicator of a need for a slight upwards readjustment of the community perspective of my social standing. My failing would be of equal interest to this group of people, who collectively form a conduit for the free flow of information into all corners of the community, and who could win a third world war, with nothing but their derision.

Thirdly, and most importantly from a financial benefit perspective, the network of people who, from my university, through to the potential employers, and any other group of people for whom my graduation, my degree classification, and my reputation all mattered because they could potentially benefit in some way. My degree, and more importantly, its classification, to these people means the extent to which I was successful in acquiring the competence, skills and professionalism from which they might benefit, and my graduation was confirmation of having attained those. For these people, more than any other group of people, the extent to which the university deemed me to be successful was most important as they are looking for a positional result in relation to all other students in my cohort. As a very mature student, who was neither the optimal age, nor the optimal sex, for a career in my chosen field, the level of my success within that hierarchy was incredibly important!

Fourthly, I mattered. My ability to stand rightly proud of my achievements, to know and feel that I had truly given my best, and that the standard which I had attained had been recognised by those whose opinion, ( i.e. the academics themselves), is deemed to be so important, that this opinion has acquired special judicial terminology, (i.e. academic judgement), is vigorously protected by the law and is considered to be unimpeachable.

So, if I graduated, what is the problem, you ask?

The problem is, that I did not have a successful graduation. I was "allowed" to graduate. It was a mere formality, a wrapping up and disposal of a dirty little affair that should never have happened. There was no celebratory interaction between me and my lecturers, just an awkward embarrassed silence, between the necessary spoken instructions, concerning where to sit, etc. There were unfinished matters, unanswered questions, a sense of something not quite right, a sense of fear that something inappropriate might escape if anyone interacted with me. I felt like I was in a bubble, not really a part of it at all. The reality of what I was feeling was acknowledged by my portfolio manager, as I had descended the steps from the stage, when she had whispered the question, "are you alright?" I conceded a curt "Yes, thank you." She had been the person who had told me on the phone, a week after that viva, that I could not expect to be treated the same as people who had not been accused of cheating, after I had supposedly been cleared of any wrongdoing, (clearly mud does stick!). That was the only time when a member of staff spoke to me, throughout that day. Later, I spoke to one of my cohort, on the steps of the City Hall. He asked me how I had done, what classification I had attained. I attempted to tell him how I had failed to gain that first class by less than 1%, and attempted to describe those dubious circumstances, but I kept mentally blacking out, and I could hear this alien voice, stuttering and babbling incoherently, like a stroke victim. I could feel him wanting desperately to say the words for me; words that I held clearly inside my head, but was struggling to speak out loud. This was a public manifestation of the psychological damage that I had suffered.

In the months that followed, it was that same damaged, incoherent person that I took with me to the several unsuccessful job interviews, each more unsuccessful than the previous one, as the last vestiges of my self-esteem disappeared. In those interviews, I fought back the tears whenever their probing questions happened to touch on aspects of my degree that had become such a nightmare for me, especially that dissertation work that I should have been rightly proud of, but for which I had been made to feel as dirty and ostracised as the proverbial leper. I must have come across as a very secretive and untrustworthy person to those interviewers, as I tried desperately to skirt around the reality of what had happened over that work, and find something enthusiastic and persuasive to say about it. Each one of these new bad experiences burned that pain deeper into my brain, and I had completely lost control of the psychological reaction that each new evocation of those memories brought about, and I had no idea how to stop it. That was when I knew that I must complain. From that point forward, Deech, RichardOfYork and others will know without a doubt, without me telling it here, that things for me only got worse.

Does that sound like success to you, Buster12?

Reply 86

8

I fear Julie the mistake you made was waiting to complain and accepting your degree. It has had a terrible affect on you mentally and I feel that it would be in your best interests to put the past behind you and hope for a better future. I am sure if you work hard on looking after number one and your mental health better things will follow. I see that you are obviously an A class student and the first you missed out on has left you feeling robbed. They are a law unto themselves and despite being cleared of cheating they still refused to believe that you were capable of writing such a peace. You know in your heart that the work was yours. I suggest you let your past go and look to a happier future as I fear it has been too long now for you to get any justice. We can just measure our sucsess on degrees Julie we are worth more. Bless you and your family in the times ahead of you. Deech.com sounds like a very good idea to get help at the point you need it before they waste endless time telling you endless rubbish is what we as students need. It is just wrong that we have to take advice from the very people who have stiched us up.

Reply 87

5

Hi
I have just had the complaints outcome through ( of course NOT JUSTIFIED) . waiting nearly 2 years for it and guess what! The adjudicator didn't even get his numbers right let alone the rest.

Now that I have the decision, where do you think I should go, JR or County court?

Mine has nothing to do with academic judgment.

Reply 88

5

Hi
I have just had the complaints outcome through ( of course NOT JUSTIFIED) . waiting nearly 2 years for it and guess what! The adjudicator didn't even get his numbers right let alone the rest.

Now that I have the decision, where do you think I should go, JR or County court?

Mine has nothing to do with academic judgment.

Reply 89

8

Original post

by kazm25

Hi
I have just had the complaints outcome through ( of course NOT JUSTIFIED) . waiting nearly 2 years for it and guess what! The adjudicator didn't even get his numbers right let alone the rest.

Now that I have the decision, where do you think I should go, JR or County court?

Mine has nothing to do with academic judgment.

Hi there I am sorry about the outcome. Going by this thread it seems that this is the norm. I am not sure but I think unless you had started and stayed legal proceedings there is nothing you can do now. hopefully Deech or Megajules will answer you , they seem more clued in to what to do next. x

Reply 90

8

Original post

by deech

The thing I'd do is have a website with all the information a student needs. Then lobby to have the universities give the link to students who make a complaint. Maybe a body like the QAA can force that to happen.

A bit like how at the end of the procedure the university is forced to direct the student to the OIA. Well at the start of the procedure, they should be forced to direct students to deech.com.

The biggest mistake an uninformed student will make is to think they are fighting for justice. Because they are sure of their case, they ignorantly go through the procedures on the belief justice will be done. By the time they realise things don't work like that, its too late and you could have fatally prejudiced your case by something as small as saying you agree with the way a hearing is to be conducted.

Students need to learn at the start that it is a procedural game, and they need to scrutinize every procedure the university follows. They need to know the OIA work the same way. And they need to know all the legal options and the implications of the case law.

That can all be compiled on a single website. The university will have a plan to white wash the complaint and manipulate the procedures accordingly. If you are wise to their tricks, then you call them out on it right away before they even hold the hearing or investigation. Their response will be silence at which point you win the game. Thats how you have to work to get justice.

Deech I think that is a brilliant idea , I think it is thinly way students can get some fair play on a very uneven plying field. It is quite frankly scandalous that we are forced to be led by the very people who have destroyed us in the first place. They all stick together and cover up things. I have a number of emails sent between staff covering their backs and making sure they all say the same. One lecturer obviously finds I very funny that she hasn't answerd me and I have now run out of time to appeal!!!!! This is what we are dealing with.

Reply 91

5

Original post

by buster12

Hi there I am sorry about the outcome. Going by this thread it seems that this is the norm. I am not sure but I think unless you had started and stayed legal proceedings there is nothing you can do now. hopefully Deech or Megajules will answer you , they seem more clued in to what to do next. x

Thank you for your sympathy buster12.

Hi deech, sorry for inconvenience but you seem to know a lot about OIA and court proceedings:

I have followed the University's internal procedure and the next step was to go to OIA which I did. after waiting 2 years, the Complaints Outcome issued (Unjustified) weeks ago I thought now may be a time when I can initiate legal proceeding against the university. I thought the time limitation clock starts ticking once the Complaints outcome is issued, please advise if this is not the case, because I am in the middle of preparing a case for County Court Proceeding.

Please do advise as to whether to go for JR or County court?

Reply 92

OP

7

Original post

by buster12

I fear Julie the mistake you made was waiting to complain and accepting your degree. It has had a terrible affect on you mentally and I feel that it would be in your best interests to put the past behind you and hope for a better future. I am sure if you work hard on looking after number one and your mental health better things will follow. I see that you are obviously an A class student and the first you missed out on has left you feeling robbed. They are a law unto themselves and despite being cleared of cheating they still refused to believe that you were capable of writing such a peace. You know in your heart that the work was yours. I suggest you let your past go and look to a happier future as I fear it has been too long now for you to get any justice. We can just measure our sucsess on degrees Julie we are worth more. Bless you and your family in the times ahead of you. Deech.com sounds like a very good idea to get help at the point you need it before they waste endless time telling you endless rubbish is what we as students need. It is just wrong that we have to take advice from the very people who have stiched us up.

Two things, Buster12, Firstly, I accepted my degree because I was ENTITLED to it, and the university's unlawful downgrading of it did not detract from that entitlement! Secondly, it was well over a year after I had accepted that degree when I found out what had actually happened, i.e. that I had had my mark downgraded, again because of the unlawful cover-up carried out by the university. That meant that I could not possibly appeal my mark or my degree classification, until well over a year after I had accepted that degree. I don't see that as MY problem, but theirs! I am ENTITLED to the level of degree that I earned, and that does not change just because I discover the 'mistake' after I have accepted my entitlement to a degree.

I'm reasonably clear why it was done to me, and I am reasonably clear that it was malicious. I was a very mature student. What appears to happen to mature students such as me is one of two things. Especially in the economic climate that we were living in 2008, the Government would have felt that it was imperative to give the jobs to younger people. They are seen as more deserving. Therefore, those mature students whose ability is borderline and who can be given a substandard degree are simply given the lowest grade that can be given. They will naturally fail to compete in the job market, as they are in competition with younger people with the same, or better qualifications.

People like me are a problem though, because we can compete academically with our younger peers. So, there has to be some other way of ensuring that the younger people have the edge in the job market when they finish university. Remember, employers are not allowed, by law, to discriminate based on age. (I can categorically state that practically every single rejection that I have had has been based on my age! It has always been wrapped up as something else, but the excuses are very thin veils. The only problems are the ability to prove anything and even with concrete proof, the ability to do something about it without ending up in this ridiculous charade that drags on for years with no resolution.)

So, you see, my distress is not just over hurt feelings, it is over the very real malicious removal of me from the job market. This same university claimed, even as recently as a month or two ago, that they have NEVER given me an academic reference. I disputed their claim, as it is ridiculous! I worked for IBM for 14 months on a work placement arranged by the university. While I had to do my bit, by passing online aptitude tests, and attending an interview and selection day in Portsmouth, I am not arrogant enough to believe that I worked for a global company of such standing without them ever requiring an academic reference from my university. This was the first and only work placement company that I applied to, so my success was not only huge, it was instantaneous too. Yet conversely, while they want me to believe that I achieved that all by myself without any help from the university, on graduation, I was unable to pull off the same coup with any other employer, despite trying for nearly six years, even with the added enhancements to my CV that working for such a company should bring, including the fact that I was security cleared, and had excellent references from my time there!

It was clear to me that, since my graduation, I was being given detrimental references from the university. It was also clear that employers had certain information about me that they could not have had via any other channel.

And during all of that time, the college where I had undertaken my HND were hinting that I should go and do some work for them. I was contacted by this college during my time at university, as they wanted to use my "success story" in their student literature. It is clear to me now that this was the "arrangement" that the university had with this college. I was being manipulated behind the scenes and without my consent. I was forced to succumb to that arrangement, and in the absence of any other work being forthcoming, had to accept their offer of work. I was not required to supply any references, and I soon learned that my belief in the support that I felt they would give me was unfounded. I was naive back then, but the college and the university had strong ties, and the college came down heavily in favour of support for the university. I was treated abominably by them, and when my initial six month contract ran out I did not renew it, I was then out of work for a further 18 months, until I agreed to return to work for them. I was then abused further, and I am currently unemployed and have this college in an Employment Tribunal for discrimination, harassment and victimisation. That Tribunal has been ongoing since I finished at the college in December 2012, during which time I have been unemployed.

Reply 93

3

Original post

by kazm25

Thank you for your sympathy buster12.

Hi deech, sorry for inconvenience but you seem to know a lot about OIA and court proceedings:

I have followed the University's internal procedure and the next step was to go to OIA which I did. after waiting 2 years, the Complaints Outcome issued (Unjustified) weeks ago I thought now may be a time when I can initiate legal proceeding against the university. I thought the time limitation clock starts ticking once the Complaints outcome is issued, please advise if this is not the case, because I am in the middle of preparing a case for County Court Proceeding.

Please do advise as to whether to go for JR or County court?

No problem. Some of the information is in this thread which you can read as you're putting together the case, it's the relevant case law to you. Also read the OxCHEPS website, the Civil Procedure Rules on the Ministry of Justice website, and right now make sure you prepare and send a Letter Before Claim to the university.

JR v County Court

I am not sure which one is best for your specific case. JR deals with reviewing the procedures the university followed in coming to the decision, whilst County Court proceedings deals with the substance of your complaint. But it's not really a clear split, whichever route you opt for it will involve procedural as well as substantive issues, and you can include both in either form of proceedings.

The court will not punish you if you choose the wrong one, they will just transfer you over to the correct court and then carry on. If there is any problems you can cite the Clark and Trustee cases I mentioned in another post.

The reason I opt for judicial review is it works the same way as the OIA, so your mindset is already in a public law arena. County Court proceedings are Civil Law, which I have no experience of. Without a barrister I'd be out of my comfort zone especially if I had to cross-examine witnesses. Also County Court judge gives weight to oral testimony, which is difficult to predict and account for. It gives the university to lie their way out of trouble. In judicial review the evidence is all written, I find that much easier for me to prepare and be confident about the strength of my case.

The big advantage of County Court is if you don't have documentary evidence to back up your claims, then your own witness statements can be backed up with oral testimony. Also if you win, then damages are guaranteed, whereas in Judicial Review the damages are always at the discretion of the judge. Also the County Court is less intimidating than the High Court.

I don't know the specifics of your case, they might be so heavily weighted to civil law or public law that one route is so obviously the most appropriate for you. Even if you pick the wrong one, then the worst that will happen is it gets transferred.

Time limit

All things being equal, I think you're right to go for County Court proceedings purely due to the time limit.

Since you didn't issue and stay proceedings, the three-month time limit for judicial review becomes a bit fuzzy and not well defined by previous case law. That time starts running from the date of the university's decision. So ordinarily you would be out of time. However, there is prior case (Kwao) in which the judge understood that if students have to go through the OIA first then they should get more time.

But that is where the case law stops. It wasn't clear whether you get a three-month extension.... and there is no correlation between the date of the university decision and the date of the OIA decision. Three months for one doesn't automatically translate to three months from the other. Does that make sense? In my view it's common sense that you should get three months from the date of the OIA decision, but there is enough leeway in the case law that a biased judge can say tough luck, you ought to have acted sooner than three months. It's a risk.

The time limit for County Court is six years. However, since the university is a public body that is in theory amenable to judicial review, you have to bring the claim within the same time-limit of three months. Otherwise the university can argue it is an abuse of process and your claim gets thrown out. The reason is you are not allowed to exploit the 6 year limit to get around the Judicial Review time limit.

So finish the pre-action protocol, then issue the County Court claim no later than three months from the OIA decision. Then you still risk the same leeway of a judge saying three-months is too long and it should be quicker. You can minimise this by getting the pre-action letter in sooner rather than later. If you get burned on the abuse of process thing, you have a fall back argument through county court proceedings. You can say judicial review was never a viable option (in other words you pretend the issuing and staying of proceedings doesn't exist), and you can say your case is never a judicial review matter... so therefore you are not abusing it or trying to get around it if it was never on the table in the first place.

Reply 94

5

Original post

by deech

No problem. Some of the information is in this thread which you can read as you're putting together the case, it's the relevant case law to you. Also read the OxCHEPS website, the Civil Procedure Rules on the Ministry of Justice website, and right now make sure you prepare and send a Letter Before Claim to the university.

JR v County Court

I am not sure which one is best for your specific case. JR deals with reviewing the procedures the university followed in coming to the decision, whilst County Court proceedings deals with the substance of your complaint. But it's not really a clear split, whichever route you opt for it will involve procedural as well as substantive issues, and you can include both in either form of proceedings.

The court will not punish you if you choose the wrong one, they will just transfer you over to the correct court and then carry on. If there is any problems you can cite the Clark and Trustee cases I mentioned in another post.

The reason I opt for judicial review is it works the same way as the OIA, so your mindset is already in a public law arena. County Court proceedings are Civil Law, which I have no experience of. Without a barrister I'd be out of my comfort zone especially if I had to cross-examine witnesses. Also County Court judge gives weight to oral testimony, which is difficult to predict and account for. It gives the university to lie their way out of trouble. In judicial review the evidence is all written, I find that much easier for me to prepare and be confident about the strength of my case.

The big advantage of County Court is if you don't have documentary evidence to back up your claims, then your own witness statements can be backed up with oral testimony. Also if you win, then damages are guaranteed, whereas in Judicial Review the damages are always at the discretion of the judge. Also the County Court is less intimidating than the High Court.

I don't know the specifics of your case, they might be so heavily weighted to civil law or public law that one route is so obviously the most appropriate for you. Even if you pick the wrong one, then the worst that will happen is it gets transferred.

Time limit

All things being equal, I think you're right to go for County Court proceedings purely due to the time limit.

Since you didn't issue and stay proceedings, the three-month time limit for judicial review becomes a bit fuzzy and not well defined by previous case law. That time starts running from the date of the university's decision. So ordinarily you would be out of time. However, there is prior case (Kwao) in which the judge understood that if students have to go through the OIA first then they should get more time.

But that is where the case law stops. It wasn't clear whether you get a three-month extension.... and there is no correlation between the date of the university decision and the date of the OIA decision. Three months for one doesn't automatically translate to three months from the other. Does that make sense? In my view it's common sense that you should get three months from the date of the OIA decision, but there is enough leeway in the case law that a biased judge can say tough luck, you ought to have acted sooner than three months. It's a risk.

The time limit for County Court is six years. However, since the university is a public body that is in theory amenable to judicial review, you have to bring the claim within the same time-limit of three months. Otherwise the university can argue it is an abuse of process and your claim gets thrown out. The reason is you are not allowed to exploit the 6 year limit to get around the Judicial Review time limit.

So finish the pre-action protocol, then issue the County Court claim no later than three months from the OIA decision. Then you still risk the same leeway of a judge saying three-months is too long and it should be quicker. You can minimise this by getting the pre-action letter in sooner rather than later. If you get burned on the abuse of process thing, you have a fall back argument through county court proceedings. You can say judicial review was never a viable option (in other words you pretend the issuing and staying of proceedings doesn't exist), and you can say your case is never a judicial review matter... so therefore you are not abusing it or trying to get around it if it was never on the table in the first place.

Thank you so much deech, very useful information.

Can OIA overrule its decision?

Their complaint procedure says they can only look at cases where there is an issue about "service quality". only then OIA may consider complaints.

On the other hand, the OIA decision maker has given me 2 weeks to make comments on the decision should I have any?

Am I obliged to waste any longer time going through their procedures again or should I go to County Court straight away?

Reply 95

OP

7

Original post

by kazm25

Absolutely. now guys you will here about my case, I do not think for one second that there has ever been a stronger case against any university in the history of OIA than mine, and yet found to be "UNJUSTIFIED".

You are right, going to for OIA is a waste of time as it has been for mine,

If it was not for confidentiality reason and a future legal action, I would published every single detail about this case and the OIA decision.

The good thing is that I have kept record of everything and all is documented.
You will be surprised to see how useless the whole process is and what a waste of time and money the OIA is!

I'll be well impressed if you can surprise me over something that the OIA have done! :biggrin:

Regarding the strength of your case, I don't think that anyone who spends in excess of two years fighting for justice with their own case has any inkling that their case is anything other than watertight, bombproof and as strong as any case that could ever have existed. For that reason alone, there should be a change in the way that student complaints are handled. It is obscene to keep students inside a system in which it is already ordained that they will fail, for that length of time. It is purely the application of attrition designed to make them quit, not just their pursuit within the OIA system, but to quit pursuing the complaint at all.

When students are tenacious and don't quit, it is then stated that they must be mentally ill. See all the references to mental illness that keep on cropping up about me? How many of them do you believe are valid?? How many of them have been made by a medical professional? How many of those made by a medical professional have been made as a result of consultation with me?

In fact the only real mental illness that I have suffered has been at their hands! Anyone being brutally honest will tell you that what I have experienced,has been a normal reaction from a very normal, strong person to an extremely abnormal situation. I will not accept labels from those who have sought to harm me, and this is one very important distinction, because a degree is in fact a label that you have paid those people to stick on you, based on their perception of your ability. That's the only label you paid for, and the only one that you should be accepting from them. Don't let them even begin to do that to you. And believe me, they'll try it if they get half a chance!

Reply 96

MsNikits

Original post

by buster12

I am going through the same thing at the moment, it is needlessly lenghty process that is designed to make you run out of time to pursue the legal route. All my claims were backed up by evidence and totally overlooked in favour of tutors outright lies. I am pursuing dissability discrimination through the courts because The stress is taking its toll but I will not give up!!!!!!!

I never knew that students could become so "helpless"..
It is frustrating and so stressful knowing that one has been let down by the HE institutes .. and when we think we see a light down the tunnel.. we end up with Bias and incompetents such as the OIA.

Just like so many of you here, I have been through an appeal process with the University I was studying..

I failed an assessment by 3 marks, however at the time of the assessments I wasn't very well and was being followed by a doctor.
I was unfortunately on antidepressants, and even though I spoke to my tutor about this I ended up not taking any step further and ended up submitting the assessment.

When appealing I explained all the reasons, provided medical evidence and other valuable documents that could show my circumstances at the time of assessments.

The university rejected stating that I could now show a flare up of my illness.
Even though the medical evidence covered the date for this specific assessment, the university said that wasn't enough.
I needed to show a flare up on that specific date..

Took the case to the OIA, got initial emails stating that my case was one they could look into and that a case handler would be allocated. 5 months after got a reply saying that after all they could not look at my case because the University I am complaining about only adhered to the OIA scheme 1 day ( yes ONE DAY) after my appeal was heard..

As a last resource I am wondering if I should try and knock our Judiciary doors..
Spoken to few solicitors and as per what I have been told the costs can go anything from 3 to 4k or above..

This is a joke.. a joke that can unfortunately jeopardise a future...

Reply 97

3

Original post

by kazm25

Thank you so much deech, very useful information.

Can OIA overrule its decision?

Their complaint procedure says they can only look at cases where there is an issue about "service quality". only then OIA may consider complaints.

On the other hand, the OIA decision maker has given me 2 weeks to make comments on the decision should I have any?

Am I obliged to waste any longer time going through their procedures again or should I go to County Court straight away?

Haha they will never overrule their decision. But you definitely have to comment on their draft decision and refute each of the reasons they use to support the decision, point out any factual errors, point out where they have not checked a disputed fact against documentary evidence, everything you can to discredit that decision. You should even ask for an extension of time to submit the comments if you can come up with a good reason.

They will consider you comments, perhaps alter their reasons a bit, then come to the same decisions as before. That will be their final decision which you are not allowed to comment on. The court time-limits will be extended from the date of that final decision.

If you took the OIA to court, then they have the power to restart their whole process afresh as an attempt to avoid going to court. But you're quite sensibly not taking the OIA to court, so as far as you are concerned the final decision is final.

Get working on those comments.

Reply 98

3

Original post

by Megajules

The decision seems to hinge on what you want as an outcome. As Deech says, there is case law built up already regarding Judicial Review, and it has a direct bearing on any judgement that you may get there. Judicial Review will NOT look at what the university did to you. It will look at what the OIA decided, and whether or not that was sound decision.

We have started to construct a site to help with this, but it only has a few days work on there at present, and, as a prototype, is of limited value. We hope it will soon be of much greater use for future students, especially with input from people, like yourself, who have had the experience and who can highlight the problems that they faced.

Note that it's not called Deech.com, but oiahe.info. That's because the OIA's own website is http://oiahe.org.uk Students searching for OIA information are much more likely to stumble across this url than Deech.com, (which is actually not available anyway, as it's already taken.)

Follow the link below, and we'd appreciate any suggestions that might also be useful to others. (Don't worry about how "unpretty" it is at the moment, that can be dealt with later.)

http://oiahe.info/

I'm impressed, that site is a very good start and is exactly what I think is needed.

In order to be taken seriously in the future, you should consider switching it to a more professional sounding URL.

The flowchart converges to "get a solicitor" (unless it's not displaying properly in my browser). But telling students they have no alternative option but to get a solicitor, it puts off the ones with no money and no access to legal aid. I think that should be expanded with an alternative branch for Litigants in Person.

If and when you expand the legal information on there, don't depict it as professional legal advice. Also don't depict it as the advice of a solicitor or try to get a solicitor to support/contribute directly to the advice. It needs to be a research tool for students to learn from and use themselves, not legal advice.

The reason I say that is solicitors have an overriding duty to the court and the greater interests of justice. They give advice to assist their clients, but above all their advice has to be given with regard to and respect for the court. For example they genuinely advice you to pursue an appeals process in good faith and expecting to avoid court.

So a solicitor can't look at the case law in the way I do, with total bad faith and knowledge that every preceding stage will fail. I think this is in fact why a lot of students with solicitors come unstuck. The truth is you have to know that your complaint might indeed fail at every stage until you get to court, and base your strategy on that in order to get you to court in the best shape and position you possibly can be. Then if by some miracle you succeeded beforehand its a happy surprise.

The best way to succeed before court is to act nicely with the person hearing the appeal and show respect to them. This makes sense. So it's in the interests of justice that all people do so... as that leads to the least number of court cases. What we would be doing is to act nicely up to the first instant that the person acts in bad faith towards you. Then you politely kick their ass with complaints, questions, objections, demands for replies, and so on. That's how to create a convincing case for you to win in court. But it can never be what a solicitor should advise you to do or else the courts will get overloaded with cases.

(edited 11 years ago)

Reply 99