Orange sending debt collectors. Help?

Hello,

Can anyone advise me on a situation?
I had a contract with Orange for 18 months quite a few years ago (maybe 4?) and when my contract ended it was simply on a rolling basis from month to month. This happened for a further few months before I changed from Orange to 02. When I rang Orange to inform them, I paid off the following month’s outstanding balance and they informed me that they’d keep my data on file for a further 3 months before deleting. As far as I was concerned that was it. I received a letter from Orange confirming that everything was finished (however due to moving homes, the letter’s been lost in the process of moving).

Now, 18 MONTHS later, out of the blue I’ve received a letter from Orange’s debt collection agency called “Lowell” asking me for approx £50 and informing me that Orange has sold my account to them. They’re claiming that I owe Orange £50 and after Orange have tried “numerous” times to get in touch with me. I’ve had NO contact from Orange since that final letter. However, I’m so annoyed that I’ve actually lost the letter (and I didn’t think I’d need it almost 2 years later either). Any advice on how to approach this situation? I’ve also got a big problem that my account that should have been deleted 15 months ago is actually still active and has been sold on.

However, I would appreciate advice on how to deal with this £50 bill and these debt collectors - who are already threatening with bailiffs on their first letter? Thanks.

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Reply 1

Paralove

Sure this isn't just a scam?

Reply 2

james22

Sounds scammy, ring orange to be sure though.

Reply 3

DedicatedDreamer

Original post by Paralove

Sure this isn't just a scam?

Honestly, that hasn't even gone through my head. There was an accompanying letter from Orange Customer Collections (headered with the logo and everything) saying that my account has been sold.

BUT, now you've said that, should I ring up Orange and speak to them first? On the letter, it actually says "all further correspondence should be directed to Lowell" which seems dodgy to me.

Reply 4

CallMeBatwoman

Sounds like a scam, definitely ring Orange.

Reply 5

sr90

Volunteer Team

A debt collection agency wouldn't bother chasing a debt of £50. That's really dodgy to me.

Reply 6

Matthew150

Original post by DedicatedDreamer

Definitely ring Orange, and with respect, a letter header with a logo could be produced by anyone with copy and paste on word.

Reply 7

66310346671011

better pay up asap, or this lads gonna be at your door in no time mate

Reply 8

samba

It's not a scam. A 5 second search of google would tell you this.

Reply 9

Runninground

Original post by DedicatedDreamer

Why does that seem dodgy? If Orange has sold the debt onto them then you owe the debt collectors, not Orange.

A basic starting point before assuming it's a scam would be to Google the debt collection company and check for basic details, company number, contact info, professional website, etc.

Then I would google something like 'Orange debt collectors Lowell' and read other peoples experiences.

Then I would write to Orange asking if they have indeed sold your debt onto Lowell. I don't know if they will tell you but it's worth a try. I would also ask them for a breakdown and proof of the debt owed.

Then I would contact Lowell for proof of the debt owed and a breakdown of how it is made up. Compare this to the one given by Orange.

Then I'd sit tight and wait for any more contact. If the breakdown looks reasonable and they contact you again then I'd pay. You clearly had an unpaid bill that needed paying.

Reading your OP again I would also ask for a copy of all correspondence they have had with you since [date] (when you ended your contract). They should have it all on file. This way you can actually see if they did send you numerous letters.

Also don't worry about the bailiffs, I'm pretty sure they can't enter your home anyway (there is a video somewhere which shows you how to deal with them).

That's what I would do, but I don't have experience with debt collectors so would probably make it up as I went along.

Original post by sr90

A debt collection agency wouldn't bother chasing a debt of £50. That's really dodgy to me.

Yes they would. They will have a standard letter that they send out to debtors which will take all of 10 minutes to fill in the right bits and print off. A letter alone will scare most people into paying it. Whether they would continue to chase the debt is a different matter.

Reply 10

DedicatedDreamer

Original post by Runninground

Thank you for your reply. It seems dodgy to me because thinking about it; I'd expect a separate letter from Orange not a letter from Orange and Lowell in the same post? They are still 2 different companies and I doubt a major company would give permission for another company to send letters on their behalf?

I have Googled them (after the first lot of responses) and I've found lots of posts and complaints from as far back as 2009 stating that Lowell are scam artists. In fact, they were apparently on Watchdog in 2009 for this reason (I'm currently trying to find the footage for this). There's also posts on moneysupermarket stating that Lowell are scam artists so I'm willing to bet they are.

Your statement "You clearly had an unpaid bill that needed paying" is incorrect. I phoned Orange, cleared my outstanding debts with them and CLOSED my account. I wouldn't have received a letter saying that my account was closed if I had any outstanding debts?

I think I'm going to leave it and see what happens. I don't have the time or energy to spend chasing up debt collectors when I know I've done nothing wrong. If I do receive another letter, I'll phone Orange for my piece of mind and speak to them. But I don't owe them anything and I'm actually 100% confident on that.

I will ask for all copies of correspondence, I do like that idea just to have a hard copy. However, I haven't received a SINGLE letter after my account closed so I genuinely do think something dodgy is going on.

Reply 11

balotelli12

You seem to not be aware that Orange sell the debt to third parties who are legally entitled to chase it.
If they have done that it is no longer anything to do with Orange.
If, as you claim, you owe nothing inform Lowell in writing that you look forward to seeing them in court and the judge's reaction to having his time wasted.
Then forget about it.

Reply 12

DedicatedDreamer

Thank you everyone for the advice. I do appreciate it :smile:

Reply 13

Reue

Original post by balotelli12

You seem to not be aware that Orange sell the debt to third parties who are legally entitled to chase it.
If they have done that it is no longer anything to do with Orange.

This is not true.

If the debt is being disputed (as it is) the claim must be passed back to the original company and the debt collection agency must stop pursuing it until the dispute is resolved.

Reply 14

Reue

Original post by DedicatedDreamer

Thank you everyone for the advice. I do appreciate it :smile:

Ignore the above advice. The debt collectors wont take you to court, it would be Orange who would do so on advice of the debt collectors.

The standard proceedure is to write to the debt collectors informing them:

Firstly, I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client, and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

Second; should it be your client's intention to start court proceedings, they must provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct:

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/pro...action_conduct

Please also note that a failure and/or refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in a complaint being made to the court and an application for a stay of the action and costs pursuant to the provisions of paragraph 4 of the Practice Direction on non-compliance and sanctions.

In the meantime, you should note that this charge is disputed, and you must now refer this matter back to your client and cease and desist all further contact with me. Failure to do so will result in a complaint to the Credit Services Association.

You then contact Orange to dispute the bill. Make sure you print copies of all letters and get proof of postage when sending.

Other than that, ignore anything further from the debt collectors.

Reply 15

tridentx1

By UK law debts cannot be sold off the company you have a debt with is who you have a contact with you have not signed any contracts with the company that has bought the debt

Reply 16

balotelli12

Nonsense!
Tell the govt that!
They have sold off several tranches of student loans.

Reply 17

parentlurker

actually some of the advice is good - do not ignore this but send the letter suggested disputing that you have a debt. Make sure you get copies of paperwork from Orange. Buy yourself a file for important documents and keep them 7 years. Scan them into your computer so you have backup.

Reply 18

Fullofsurprises

Original post by tridentx1

By UK law debts cannot be sold off the company you have a debt with is who you have a contact with you have not signed any contracts with the company that has bought the debt

No, they can sell debts - that's how, for example, mortgages get transferred from one provider to another.

The key point is that when they sell the debt, they must also provide the new 'owner' of the debt with all relevant evidence and proof. Nobody in English can collect a debt without proper evidence of the original contract and record of payments and in practise, many bulk debt collection agencies like Lowell mentioned by OP in this thread do not do the proper work of gathering this paperwork carefully. They simply purchase large quantities of data (in this case from Orange) which is often incomplete, inaccurate and sloppy. As it appears to be in this case.

OP should write back to Orange challenging the basis of the debt and send a letter to Lowell refuting their claim and telling them they have informed Orange and there is nothing to pay.

If Lowell ignore this and continue to demand money, OP should warn them that they are feeling harassed and that they will not be paying anything to Lowell because they do not owe anything. This leaves the ball in Lowell's court and it is very unlikely anyway that they will go to court over a relatively small sum like £50.

If OP can't get any satisfaction from Orange, they should write again to Orange insisting that they check their records more carefully, that nothing is owed and that if Lowell persist, they will hold Orange responsible for harassment, which is a criminal offence.

Sometimes these debt collection agencies are like stuck records and continue to spew out lurid warnings by post and phone that have no basis in law and disregard all contact. If this is the case it is worth writing a complaint about them to the Office of Fair Trading.

The website Consumer Action Group has large amounts of helpful information on the above, on Lowell and on dealing with incorrect alleged mobile phone debts. Often these relate to post-termination charges which are generally unenforceable in law as they are unfair contract terms.

EE Complaints have a lot of useful information.
http://eecomplaints.co.uk/
http://eecomplaints.co.uk/ee-debt-collectors

You are not alone OP! Thousands of people (myself included) have had threats from mobile operators about these post-termination fees.

(edited 9 years ago)

Reply 19

Reue

Original post by Fullofsurprises

No, they can sell debts - that's how, for example, mortgages get transferred from one provider to another.

My understanding of the process wasn't that the debt is sold.. but that you effectivly take out a new mortgage to pay off the original one in full. It's not the case of the debt being sold but of you borrowing from one bank to pay off another.