simpletech668
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I was recently having a conversation with my parents about Cloud Storage and how it would be a good idea to move the majority of our photos onto cloud storage so they can share them easily with family and friends, but they seem to think that cloud storage is unsafe.

Personally I think it is safer than keeping it on a external hdd or even a laptop which can he stolen than on the cloud which is relatively safe (I think)

Just wanted to see what your opinion on this topic was? Is cloud storage safe?

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mfaxford
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(Original post by simpletech668)
I was recently having a conversation with my parents about Cloud Storage and how it would be a good idea to move the majority of our photos onto cloud storage so they can share them easily with family and friends, but they seem to think that cloud storage is unsafe.

Personally I think it is safer than keeping it on a external hdd or even a laptop which can he stolen than on the cloud which is relatively safe (I think)

Just wanted to see what your opinion on this topic was? Is cloud storage safe?

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If the data is important I'd want to make sure you have a local copy as well, don't totally rely on cloud storage as you never know when the company might disappear. That said Dropbox, Microsoft, Google, Amazon have all been around for a good length of time so they're unlikely to disappear overnight.
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AdampskiB
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I've recently been thinking this a lot, but not as a new user of cloud storage. More so of the reliability and continuity of my data in the cloud. So I set up my own cloud-system with the RPi to clone my Dropbox (and other stuff across my machines) periodically and keep a file history in case any accidental deletions or correuptions occur from the source machines, and an automated backup occurs including that corrupted or deleted file.

It still imposes risks of the house burning down, be burgled etc but those risks are still present (but mitigated with extra-precautions, I'm sure) for cloud storage providers. But that's the question, you don't know their physical infrastructure of the servers so you ask who and what is more reliable for your data, and is the trouble worth it? The fact it is unknown makes you feel somewhat certain you should do a back-up of your back-up. I'm not stupid though, I am sure we all assume correctly that their physical infrastructure is up to standards.

Maybe convince your parents to spend money on a NAS, so you can have one for your stuff, too :-P best of both worlds, easily store, share and backup images whilst satisfying their paranoia!
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simpletech668
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(Original post by AdampskiB)
I've recently been thinking this a lot, but not as a new user of cloud storage. More so of the reliability and continuity of my data in the cloud. So I set up my own cloud-system with the RPi to clone my Dropbox (and other stuff across my machines) periodically and keep a file history in case any accidental deletions or correuptions occur from the source machines, and an automated backup occurs including that corrupted or deleted file.

It still imposes risks of the house burning down, be burgled etc but those risks are still present (but mitigated with extra-precautions, I'm sure) for cloud storage providers. But that's the question, you don't know their physical infrastructure of the servers so you ask who and what is more reliable for your data, and is the trouble worth it? The fact it is unknown makes you feel somewhat certain you should do a back-up of your back-up. I'm not stupid though, I am sure we all assume correctly that their physical infrastructure is up to standards.

Maybe convince your parents to spend money on a NAS, so you can have one for your stuff, too :-P best of both worlds, easily store, share and backup images whilst satisfying their paranoia!
I must seem like a complete noob but I've heard of NAS from MrThaiBox123 (Youtuber) but what exactly is it? Is it like a home server sort of thing or am I missing the point completely?

And yes I think I forgot to mention it's Google Drive and I know how messed this whole NSA thing is but im sure they're Google Drive Cloud storage infrastructure is going to shut down and anyway we'll have time to move out of the cloud. It's difficult to convince parents (scratch that, family!) who are completely baffled by technology but still choose to by latest and greatest smartphones?! My mum has an S2 bought two years ago so was pretty new then and my dad recently bought the Moto G which is also pretty good. We also 2 laptops a dying desktop in need of a replacement (my hackintosh!!!) An iPad 3 and about to buy the Advent Vega Tegra Note 7 because its pretty good for gameplay and that's probably it's primary use!

In my household I'm known as the 24/7 tech support because I am literally the only person who knows how to use these items, yet I don't get to use it to its full potential because of my parents' paranoia if you like about safety!

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Push_More_Button
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(Original post by AdampskiB)
More so of the reliability and continuity of my data in the cloud. So I set up my own cloud-system with the RPi to clone my Dropbox (and other stuff across my machines) periodically and keep a file history in case any accidental deletions or correuptions occur from the source machines, and an automated backup occurs including that corrupted or deleted file.

Whilst there's no real agreed upon definition of the cloud (it's like a buzzword used by marking now), this is most definitely not a cloud-system...

(Original post by simpletech668)
I must seem like a complete noob but I've heard of NAS from MrThaiBox123 (Youtuber) but what exactly is it? Is it like a home server sort of thing or am I missing the point completely?
A NAS is Network Attached Storage.

A very basic consumer model simply acts like an external hard drive, but rather than plugged into your computer, it's plugged into your home network so it's accessible from any machine on that network (even the internet if you choose to set it up that way).
More advanced models can do other things, such as being a download server, etc.
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simpletech668
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(Original post by Push_More_Button)
A NAS is Network Attached Storage.

A very basic consumer model simply acts like an external hard drive, but rather than plugged into your computer, it's plugged into your home network so it's accessible from any machine on that network (even the internet if you choose to set it up that way).
More advanced models can do other things, such as being a download server, etc.
Ahhh okay so like a Wireless external HDD but wired to the home network. That's a great idea! Thanks, might be able to convince my parents to buy one or can you build them? I'll find out anyway! It'll mean we can have a reason to dump our 10 year old towers!!! Hahahaha can't believe we still have them. It's nice to see how far technology has come I guess!


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AdampskiB
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(Original post by Push_More_Button)
[/I]Whilst there's no real agreed upon definition of the cloud (it's like a buzzword used by marking now), this is most definitely not a cloud-system...
Agreed, while I'm not using a "model of networked enterprise storage where data is stored in virtualized pools of storage" and it's not "hosted by third parties"... We can all stop ourselves from nit-picking and accept that my RPi acts in a very similar way to what a cloud storage system does; autonomously stores data in a publicly accessible server.
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AdampskiB
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(Original post by simpletech668)
Ahhh okay so like a Wireless external HDD but wired to the home network. That's a great idea! Thanks, might be able to convince my parents to buy one or can you build them? I'll find out anyway! It'll mean we can have a reason to dump our 10 year old towers!!! Hahahaha can't believe we still have them. It's nice to see how far technology has come I guess!


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Yeah you can build your own. I was looking into doing it myself, it can be considerably cheaper than buying a dedicated NAS box with drives already in them. However it does all depend on your technological competencies as this is what retailers take advantage of, people without the know-how and their money!

If you are considering on building one (same as building any old PC if you're familiar with the process of finding and putting together compatible parts) then it's obviously a winner to buy a small (ITX or mATX) case that is incredibly quiet and efficient. When I was looking to build one, the parts came to around £200-250 (including massive drives and an epic case). Although I'm currently writing up my blog post to build one using the RPi which could cost you no more than £30 (if you already have an external HDD).
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mfaxford
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(Original post by AdampskiB)
Agreed, while I'm not using a "model of networked enterprise storage where data is stored in virtualized pools of storage" and it's not "hosted by third parties"... We can all stop ourselves from nit-picking and accept that my RPi acts in a very similar way to what a cloud storage system does; autonomously stores data in a publicly accessible server.
Actually I'd say it's very different. Cloud storage would tend to be based on an object store rather than a traditional filesystem, be easily scalable into the Peta Byte range and into huge data transfer rates and is likely to have some redundancy built in (including cross site redundancy). Your RPi solution is a basic NAS it's nothing like cloud storage in terms of how it works.


(Original post by simpletech668)
Ahhh okay so like a Wireless external HDD but wired to the home network. That's a great idea! Thanks, might be able to convince my parents to buy one or can you build them? I'll find out anyway! It'll mean we can have a reason to dump our 10 year old towers!!! Hahahaha can't believe we still have them. It's nice to see how far technology has come I guess!
It's possibly to build NAS style services although remember it's potentially only accessible from your home network (you can make it globally accessible but you'll need to open up ports on your router and have some idea about the security implications of that i.e. you probably don't want the whole NAS to be accessible by the whole world).

If you go down the build it your self route I'd stay away from doing it with an RPi (very limited bandwidth and the USB drivers have been a bit dodgy - and Drives and Ethernet all go over USB). You can build a relativly cheap system and put various drives in (ideally with Raid1/Raid5/Raid6). If you go down that route have a look at freenas as a software package to run (from memory it's based on freebsd and gives a nice web interface for managing the storage on the system)
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AdampskiB
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(Original post by mfaxford)
Actually I'd say it's very different. Cloud storage would tend to be based on an object store rather than a traditional filesystem, be easily scalable into the Peta Byte range and into huge data transfer rates and is likely to have some redundancy built in (including cross site redundancy). Your RPi solution is a basic NAS it's nothing like cloud storage in terms of how it works.
Well I did say that my setup wasn't virtualised, of enterprise standard and included multiple connections to other networks. But the comparison of the both is true in the sense that the bottom line of their end-product is very similar, autonomously storing data in a publicly accessible server. It provides some form of a similar experience when comparing it to your experience with Dropbox. But you're right with "Your RPi solution is a basic NAS it's nothing like cloud storage in terms of how it works." but then again I never said my RPi was exactly like cloud-storage in terms of how it works.

Also, bandwidth isn't restricting to the point it's unusable. I can transfer files 1-3MB/s over SSH (don't consider using Samba for doing your backups). One draw back for the RPi is indeed redundancy. The risk of hardware failure of the RPi or its external HDD is no better or worse than it not being there at all. Building your own is indeed a much better option in terms of everything; risk, quality, speed, capacity, value for money and flexibility. I'm sure there's many more advantages.
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mfaxford
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Here's what you said earlier (which is what Push_More_Button any myself are commenting on).

(Original post by AdampskiB)
... So I set up my own cloud-system with the RPi to clone my Dropbox (and other stuff across my machines) periodically

(Original post by AdampskiB)
But the comparison of the both is true in the sense that the bottom line of their end-product is very similar
It's about as similar as suggesting someone walks from London to New York, Yes they're both forms of transport and they would work, but not many people would choose to walk from London to New York.

Your solution is a Basic NAS, which based on the OP's original requirements may be a perfectly valid solution, it cannot be described in any way as a Cloud system as there are many of requirements that it doesn't achieve which are implied by calling it Cloud (In the same way you wouldn't say someone walking between two places is using a Car because whilst they are both forms of transport they're not using an engine to power their movement).
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mikeyd85
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(Original post by AdampskiB)
(don't consider using Samba for doing your backups).
Why?

Granted, I only use a Samba share for music (getting a G4 OSX 10.3 machine talking to a Linux Mint 16 machine was a proud moment!), but if there's any reason not to do this...
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AdampskiB
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(Original post by mikeyd85)
Why?

Granted, I only use a Samba share for music (getting a G4 OSX 10.3 machine talking to a Linux Mint 16 machine was a proud moment!), but if there's any reason not to do this...
I find it much slower than SSH.

(Original post by mfaxford)
..
Whilst I'm talking about computers and not cars, I have to remind you I never said that my own system functions exactly like a true cloud-system. The term "my own cloud-system" pretty much insinuates a ghetto build. Fact: unless I was stupidly rich (despite it being totally pointless) I, or any other home user individual, would not benefit from creating their own *true to every last detail* cloud-system.
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Push_More_Button
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(Original post by AdampskiB)
The term "my own cloud-system" pretty much insinuates a ghetto build.
No, "my own cloud-system" insinuates you've set up some sort of distributed computing network in your own home. Not 1 computer performing automated backups.

(Original post by AdampskiB)
I, or any other home user individual, would not benefit from creating their own *true to every last detail* cloud-system.
A home user could never have their own true cloud computing network unless you had a data centre or two handy.

The cloud buzzword has devolved to just mean 'internet server' in media and it's basically inaccurate.

You've created an automated backup system. Buy a few dozen more RPis and hook them all up together and you'd have more of a point in calling it a cloud system...


PS:- Do you work in marketing?
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simpletech668
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Sorry to be a pain but am I right in thinking that once you've built your NAS box, you'll only need a monitor to install an OS and not "need" a monitor again?

I've put need in speech marks because I'll need if reinstalling the OS, but generally will I need it when it's up and running?

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Push_More_Button
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Obviously depending on how it's configured but that is correct in the usual NAS configuration.
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simpletech668
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(Original post by Push_More_Button)
Obviously depending on how it's configured but that is correct in the usual NAS configuration.
Thank you! I'm finding it difficult finding a case which has enough expansion slots for drives. Most only have 2 3.5" bays. Also is there a way to fit a 3.5" drive in 5.25" bays?

Also booting from USB, yay or nay?

And finally RAID 1 or RAID 5 for 4 1TB drives?

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simpletech668
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Also cheap CPU recommendations?

Intel or AMD? And Haswell or Ivy Bridge, I'm moving towards to Haswell because of their low power and decent performance but maybe AMD processors are really all I need.

Also RAID cards or not?

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Push_More_Button
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(Original post by simpletech668)
Most only have 2 3.5" bays. Also is there a way to fit a 3.5" drive in 5.25" bays?
You can buy adapters like this: http://www.amazon.co.uk/StarTech-com.../dp/B0001UZQWG

(Original post by simpletech668)
Also booting from USB, yay or nay?
This depends on what you're wanting to do with your NAS. If it's going to just be a backup server doing its thing 24/7 then you might be able to get away with having your OS on a USB stick. If you're wanting to stream movies from the NAS over your network it may struggle, though it might be fine. I have no personal experience.

(Original post by simpletech668)
And finally RAID 1 or RAID 5 for 4 1TB drives?
RAID1 will have 4 identical copies of your data, you'll be limited to only 1TB of storage but you could cope with 3 dead drives without issue.
RAID5 will spread the data among more disks, you'll be able to store 3TB and cope with 1 dead drive at a time.
Personally I would go with RAID5 but I'd encourage you to read up on them and make your own judgement, ultimately it's your data and your usage so only you can decide what sort of speeds you require and what downtime would be acceptable in the case of a disk failure...
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AdampskiB
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(Original post by Push_More_Button)
No, "my own cloud-system" insinuates you've set up some sort of distributed computing network in your own home. Not 1 computer performing automated backups.


A home user could never have their own true cloud computing network unless you had a data centre or two handy.

The cloud buzzword has devolved to just mean 'internet server' in media and it's basically inaccurate.

You've created an automated backup system. Buy a few dozen more RPis and hook them all up together and you'd have more of a point in calling it a cloud system...


PS:- Do you work in marketing?
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Nope, I don't work in marketing. Why?
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