Studying Medicine Abroad

Just because some med schools abroad ask for lower grades, it doesn't mean the course isn't as good.
I study medicine abroad at a uni that requires B's (I had a degree, so they go off that too), and the course is so intense! I personally feel like I am getting a more in depth/hands on degree than if if studied in the UK.

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Reply 4

ZW17

1

Original post by hol91

Just because some med schools abroad ask for lower grades, it doesn't mean the course isn't as good.
I study medicine abroad at a uni that requires B's (I had a degree, so they go off that too), and the course is so intense! I personally feel like I am getting a more in depth/hands on degree than if if studied in the UK.

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What university are you studying at? I am hoping to go abroad this year too!

Reply 5

Hippysnake

19

Original post by hol91

Just because some med schools abroad ask for lower grades, it doesn't mean the course isn't as good.
I study medicine abroad at a uni that requires B's (I had a degree, so they go off that too), and the course is so intense! I personally feel like I am getting a more in depth/hands on degree than if if studied in the UK.

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Well, you wouldn't know that for certain, seeing as how you've not experienced UK medical training.

Reply 6

Superboy

2

Original post by hol91

Just because some med schools abroad ask for lower grades, it doesn't mean the course isn't as good.
I study medicine abroad at a uni that requires B's (I had a degree, so they go off that too), and the course is so intense! I personally feel like I am getting a more in depth/hands on degree than if if studied in the UK.

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Original post by Hippysnake

Well, you wouldn't know that for certain, seeing as how you've not experienced UK medical training.

Maybe he's asked UK medical students, or read the plethora of information available about the curricula of each school. Either way, more clinical contact does NOT mean a better doctor. In fact, research has shown that students that go to schools with less clinical contact (or where clinical contact begins later on) do far better than students where clinical contact begins early on.

Being a doctor is not about knowing the patient, his condition and the required treatment; it is about understanding each of those and the reasons behind them. That's what makes a good doctor.

Reply 7

I agree. Where I study you don't start any clinical till 3rd year. But you do a hell of a lot of pre-clinical in the 1st two years. I am in uni for 11 hours some days and in second year I will do a 12 hour anatomy exam. You do physics and chemistry here, a lot more in depth than any UK school I know.
They make sure you have the background knowledge for every single thing before you start clinical.

Reply 8

Original post by ZW17

What university are you studying at? I am hoping to go abroad this year too!

I'm at Pleven in Bulgaria. Feel free to ask any questions :smile:

Reply 9

Original post by Hippysnake

Well, you wouldn't know that for certain, seeing as how you've not experienced UK medical training.

And I know I've not studied medicine in the UK, but I have a lot of friends who do/did. I've spoken to them about their course & it's not hard to get hold of a syllabus. When I was in uni in the UK, the medics went on nights out just as much as anyone else. Here, I've not been out in a month cos I have way too much work!

Reply 10

Divv

Original post by hol91

And I know I've not studied medicine in the UK, but I have a lot of friends who do/did. I've spoken to them about their course & it's not hard to get hold of a syllabus. When I was in uni in the UK, the medics went on nights out just as much as anyone else. Here, I've not been out in a month cos I have way too much work!

That's why I think many foreign applicants want to do medicine in UK. not only its prestigious but also you have more free time than in other European Countries. This way you don't live in constant stress of studying

Reply 11

Smushy

12

In many European countries about 60% of medical students fail to get a qualification. The requirements for entry might be lower but the course itself is harder to succeed in. I'm personally starting to wonder whether medical training might be better on the mainland.

Reply 12

day_dreamer

Original post by Smushy

In many European countries about 60% of medical students fail to get a qualification. The requirements for entry might be lower but the course itself is harder to succeed in. I'm personally starting to wonder whether medical training might be better on the mainland.

I didn't know that the failure rate was so high. But it makes sense, if the courses around Europe are essentially the same but the entry requirement is much lower then more students will fail to achieve the final qualification. Because their pitching a high level of information to students from a (a level) C/D background whereas the if have a levels of AAA the jump from alevel to undergrad is not as high and you can build on a strong knowledge basis.

I don't think you necessarily need AAA to become a good doctor but as someone has already said the high entry requirements acts as a filter because there are so many potential applicants. In an ideal world the entry requirements (in the UK) could be lowered to BBB/BBC, i know its not that much lower but it could potentially allow entry to some really good students who could become great doctors, who right now wouldn't even dream of studying medicine because they haven't got 'top' grades.

Reply 13

Smushy

12

Original post by day_dreamer

I didn't know that the failure rate was so high. But it makes sense, if the courses around Europe are essentially the same but the entry requirement is much lower then more students will fail to achieve the final qualification. Because their pitching a high level of information to students from a (a level) C/D background whereas the if have a levels of AAA the jump from alevel to undergrad is not as high and you can build on a strong knowledge basis.

I don't think you necessarily need AAA to become a good doctor but as someone has already said the high entry requirements acts as a filter because there are so many potential applicants. In an ideal world the entry requirements (in the UK) could be lowered to BBB/BBC, i know its not that much lower but it could potentially allow entry to some really good students who could become great doctors, who right now wouldn't even dream of studying medicine because they haven't got 'top' grades.

It's insane :tongue:

The failure rate is that high for many other challenging courses. My brother is currently doing mechanical engineering in Delft and about 45% of students left during first year. In France, you are expected to fail the first year of med school and applicants show their endurance and dedication by trying again.

I do think the course might just be more difficult in general: universities don't really seem to mind if students drop out, which means grade inflation and the lowering of course requirements is less likely.

I think there is a lot that can be said for this approach. Students get to prove themselves on the actual course. Course choices are more likely to be made based on your passion for the subject, not on what course is attainable. Universities are under more pressure to teach well: if a university attracts the best, their students are likely to succeed in later life no matter what the course was like.

For now, I'm going to stick with my decision to study in the UK but I might end up transferring to a tougher and less prestigious uni in mainland Europe later :smile:

Reply 14

ukmed108

Original post by Smushy

It's insane :tongue:

The failure rate is that high for many other challenging courses. My brother is currently doing mechanical engineering in Delft and about 45% of students left during first year. In France, you are expected to fail the first year of med school and applicants show their endurance and dedication by trying again.

I do think the course might just be more difficult in general: universities don't really seem to mind if students drop out, which means grade inflation and the lowering of course requirements is less likely.

I think there is a lot that can be said for this approach. Students get to prove themselves on the actual course. Course choices are more likely to be made based on your passion for the subject, not on what course is attainable. Universities are under more pressure to teach well: if a university attracts the best, their students are likely to succeed in later life no matter what the course was like.

For now, I'm going to stick with my decision to study in the UK but I might end up transferring to a tougher and less prestigious uni in mainland Europe later :smile:

Every country needs a cutoff point for medicine in the UK, the barrier is at entry, in France the barrier is after 1st year, in North America, the barrier is after 4 years.

Then there are schools that accept students who didn't make those barriers and give them a second chance, i'm sure most people don't make it out of the course but if they do they are just as qualified as those who made it out of any other course.

Reply 15

Smushy

12

Original post by ukmed108

Every country needs a cutoff point for medicine in the UK, the barrier is at entry, in France the barrier is after 1st year, in North America, the barrier is after 4 years.

Then there are schools that accept students who didn't make those barriers and give them a second chance, i'm sure most people don't make it out of the course but if they do they are just as qualified as those who made it out of any other course.

Exactly

I'm just weighing the pros and cons. Which system is the best in your opinion?

Reply 16

ukmed108

Original post by Smushy

Exactly

I'm just weighing the pros and cons. Which system is the best in your opinion?

I would say the UK or French systems. I dislike the NA system because it leaves unsuccessful applicants with a 4 year bachelor's degree that's often not what they wanted to study in the first place. At least with the UK and French systems you know if you are rejected early on, so you can get on with your life, with the NA system you don't know until you are 22, in debt from tuition fees and holding a degree you never liked but did just so you could apply to medicine.

The counter point is that it gives people a chance to mature. A lot of people don't know what they like until the end of school and by then it may be too late to pull up the grades and prepare an application in the UK system, but that is countered by the GEM programs.

Reply 17

Superboy

2

Original post by ukmed108

I would say the UK or French systems. I dislike the NA system because it leaves unsuccessful applicants with a 4 year bachelor's degree that's often not what they wanted to study in the first place. At least with the UK and French systems you know if you are rejected early on, so you can get on with your life, with the NA system you don't know until you are 22, in debt from tuition fees and holding a degree you never liked but did just so you could apply to medicine.

The counter point is that it gives people a chance to mature. A lot of people don't know what they like until the end of school and by then it may be too late to pull up the grades and prepare an application in the UK system, but that is countered by the GEM programs.

Another point in favor of the North American (and now increasingly other countries) is that the four-year bachelor degree requirement reduces the number of applicants to medical schools. In the U.S., between 45-50% of applicants get a place at a medical school. This way students know that their application is not just a "crapshoot" like the U.K., where some courses have more than 40 applicants per place!

Reply 18

ukmed108

Original post by Superboy

Another point in favor of the North American (and now increasingly other countries) is that the four-year bachelor degree requirement reduces the number of applicants to medical schools. In the U.S., between 45-50% of applicants get a place at a medical school. This way students know that their application is not just a "crapshoot" like the U.K., where some courses have more than 40 applicants per place!

I don't think you are right. In the UK your chance of getting a place at medical school is around 40% just like it is in the US.

I don't know of any medical course that has more than 40 applicants per place, the high end is usually 12-13 applicants per place.

Also, the 4 year bachelor degree requirement only reduces the applicants who never had a shot in the first place. In Canada 20% of applicants get a spot at medical school, 80% of those don't succeed and a huge number don't bother applying because they don't even meet the requirements.

"Dr. Tony Sanfilippo. In his recent blog, he summarized the state of admissions at our Medical School, noting, “We received 3818 applications for our 100 positions this past year (an applicant to place ratio of 38 to 1). All Canadian schools receive many times more applications than they can accommodate. Statistics collected and published annually by the Association of Faculties of Medicine of Canada indicate that the Canadian schools collectively received 34,048 applications for their 2,877 total available positions in 2011. Assuming an application per candidate ratio of 3.3 (as Ontario statistics would suggest), it would appear that at least 10,318 individuals submitted applications that year.”

Remember these applications are made by people that have gone through the huge amount of weeding during university and a huge amount of time preparing their applications. This leaves many thousands of Bachelor of Life Science (most common major for those wanting medicine) looking for a few jobs in research most of which pay a pittance. Yes some will go do masters and into research but not everyone wants to have a research career.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 19

Hydromancer