FAO feminists : what differences between men and women are not social constructs?

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jamieTT
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Are there any? Women don't have a maternal instinct, sex drive is the same on average for both sexes but slut shaming prevents the women from going for it...Heard it all.
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PQ
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It's good manners to start an OP with your own opinion (and to present an interest in others opinions rather than dismissing those opinions before you've heard them with a comment like "heard it all").

You will probably find that if you dismiss opinions before they're stated you'll struggle to find people willing to give you any of their time.
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cole-slaw
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Most differences are either social constructs or are statistical correlations only, the only real concrete non-negotiable differences are in the chromosomes and primary and secondary sexual characteristics. If you're not sure what those entail, google the book "mummy what is happening to my body".
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Spetznaaz
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
Most differences are either social constructs or are statistical correlations only, the only real concrete non-negotiable differences are in the chromosomes and primary and secondary sexual characteristics. If you're not sure what those entail, google the book "mummy what is happening to my body".
Is the fact men are on average significantly stronger than women a social construct as well?
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Spetznaaz)
Is the fact men are on average significantly stronger than women a social construct as well?

No, its a statistical correlation, hence your use of the phrase "on average".

Most (all?) physical characteristics are biological in nature, most (all?) psychological characteristics are heavily socially informed, if not entirely constructed.
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Spetznaaz
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
No, its a statistical correlation, hence your use of the phrase "on average".

Most (all?) physical characteristics are biological in nature, most (all?) psychological characteristics are heavily socially informed, if not entirely constructed.
I'm a bit confused by what you are trying to say..

You call it a "statistical correlation" and say it's biological in nature.. Well Yes, Strength differences are one of many difference between men and women aka sexual dimorphism.

So you're admitting physical differences between men and women are biological and not social constructs (i think) which is good, however are you seriously trying to say men and women are psychologically the same, and the majority of differences can be explained by social constructs..?

Cause if so, i think you need to go read some research journals on the subject of sexual dimorphism.
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Spetznaaz)
I'm a bit confused by what you are trying to say..

You call it a "statistical correlation" and say it's biological in nature.. Well Yes, Strength differences are one of many difference between men and women aka sexual dimorphism.

So you're admitting physical differences between men and women are biological and not social constructs (i think) which is good, however are you seriously trying to say men and women are psychologically the same, and the majority of differences can be explained by social constructs..?

Cause if so, i think you need to go read some research journals on the subject of sexual dimorphism.
I have done, dear boy, that's why I'm quite well informed about this topic.

The differences between male and female brains are entirely statistical in nature, and the relationship between neurological dissimilarities and social-psychological interactions are far too complex to be deconstructed in a simplistic linear fashion, as I am sure you are aware.
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username418231
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Biological differences.
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Spetznaaz
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
I have done, dear boy, that's why I'm quite well informed about this topic.

The differences between male and female brains are entirely statistical in nature, and the relationship between neurological dissimilarities and social-psychological interactions are far too complex to be deconstructed in a simplistic linear fashion, as I am sure you are aware.
Lol trying to patronise me with "dear boy". I like, i do that also, love.

Righty, so the differences in spacial awareness for example, between men and women is a social construct..

Men and women have many psychological difference. I'm not saying not a single one is a result of / influenced by social constructs, but if you're trying to tell me all/most psychological differences have nothing to do with biology.. Well i'm sorry but you'd just be plain wrong my dear.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by Dee Leigh)
Biological differences.
The brain and the hormones are also part of our biology. Everything within our body is biology. But for some reason feminists believe that the same evolution that has transformed the 2 sexes bodies in such different and efficient machines designed to work together in order to ensure the next generation is better off has somehow forgotten to do anything different to our most important organ of them all, the brain.
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The Angry Stoic
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Women only grow boobs cus society expects them to.
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redferry
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(Original post by jamieTT)
Are there any? Women don't have a maternal instinct, sex drive is the same on average for both sexes but slut shaming prevents the women from going for it...Heard it all.
You are just a stirring troll.
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redferry
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(Original post by cole-slaw)
Most differences are either social constructs or are statistical correlations only, the only real concrete non-negotiable differences are in the chromosomes and primary and secondary sexual characteristics. If you're not sure what those entail, google the book "mummy what is happening to my body".
You forgot hormones and shiz


Very few differences are actually scientifically proven though. Public misconceptions over this are ridiculous.

People always quote brain scan studies. Pretty much the worst evidence in the world...
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by Iridescenzo)
Even Lacan would be jealous of this level of circumlocution.
If you want to say something specific, you need to use words with those specific meanings. I don't really see how I could have phrased that differently without losing some crucial subtlety from the argument.
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cole-slaw
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(Original post by redferry)
You forgot hormones and shiz


Very few differences are actually scientifically proven though. Public misconceptions over this are ridiculous.

People always quote brain scan studies. Pretty much the worst evidence in the world...
yes, hormones also, good point.
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jamieTT
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Just saw a feminist say men can give birth. So I guess I hadn't seen it all. You could have a more reasonable conversation with the residents of a psychiatric ward.

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PQ
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(Original post by jamieTT)
Just saw a feminist say men can give birth. So I guess I hadn't seen it all. You could have a more reasonable conversation with the residents of a psychiatric ward.
FWIW - it isn't a feminist saying men can give birth.

It is the law that recognises transmen as LEGAL, EQUAL men (and luckily in the US and US doesn't require sterilisation for gender reassignment paperwork).

So yeah laugh it up - you're only demonstrating your ignorance.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by PQ)
FWIW - it isn't a feminist saying men can give birth.

It is the law that recognises transmen as LEGAL, EQUAL men (and luckily in the US and US doesn't require sterilisation for gender reassignment paperwork).

So yeah laugh it up - you're only demonstrating your ignorance.
Laws and common sense are often the greatest of enemies. And she wasn't talking about the legal situation , she was going on about how gender and sex are not the same : basically if a woman decides she's a man later in life and has a baby then that means men can give birth.
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vickidc18
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Hormones aren't social constraints, vag isn't a social constraint, boobies, menopause, distribution of fat, I disagree that the maternal instinct doesn't exist, I didn't want kids before I got pregnant. I hated the sickly little things. I wasn't sure how I would cope with a baby but as soon as she was born I looked into her eyes and I knew what to do. I knew how to care for her and how to love her properly. I'm not sure how it happened because I'd never received any instructions how to care for a baby my mum wasn't around to guide me but I just knew if that makes sense. My partner didn't have a clue though had to give him instructions! I somewhat agree/disagree with the second point we might not jump into sex because of what the social consensus dictates but in a long term relationship sex frequency goes up and down sometimes I'm really up for it and so is he but then other times we get knackered and might not have any for 2/3 days. I don't really care in a long term relationship about slut-shaming I will just tap him on the back and say "wanna have sex?"
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jamieTT
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(Original post by vickidc18)
Hormones aren't social constraints, vag isn't a social constraint, boobies, menopause, distribution of fat, I disagree that the maternal instinct doesn't exist, I didn't want kids before I got pregnant. I hated the sickly little things. I wasn't sure how I would cope with a baby but as soon as she was born I looked into her eyes and I knew what to do. I knew how to care for her and how to love her properly. I'm not sure how it happened because I'd never received any instructions how to care for a baby my mum wasn't around to guide me but I just knew if that makes sense. My partner didn't have a clue though had to give him instructions! I somewhat agree/disagree with the second point we might not jump into sex because of what the social consensus dictates but in a long term relationship sex frequency goes up and down sometimes I'm really up for it and so is he but then other times we get knackered and might not have any for 2/3 days. I don't really care in a long term relationship about slut-shaming I will just tap him on the back and say "wanna have sex?"


Great, a woman I can actually talk to and not feel like Nicholson in ''Who flew over...''. I know a lot of women who went through that, including one of my wife's best friends who has a baby now although she never wanted one and she's never been happier. Maternal instincts social construct my ass.

http://www.nih.gov/news/health/may2013/nichd-06.htm

Researchers at the National Institutes of Health have uncovered firm evidence for what many mothers have long suspected: women’s brains appear to be hard-wired to respond to the cries of a hungry infant.

Researchers asked men and women to let their minds wander, then played a recording of white noise interspersed with the sounds of an infant crying. Brain scans showed that, in the women, patterns of brain activity abruptly switched to an attentive mode when they heard the infant cries, whereas the men’s brains remained in the resting state.
Remember the recent study that proved the huge differences between men and women's brains? Of course feminists cried social construction again.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...ed-differently

What do you think about maths or speech abilities? Men have extreme results anywhere from IQ tests to chess to maths, basically anything abstract or logic based, they are almost all the top people but also the bottom, while women are somewhere in the middle. Women do better in social interaction, communication, empathy and other things. Autistic type conditions are far more frequent in men. Do you think hormones and other evolutionary adaptations make us better at different things?
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