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Maths at Oxford or Cambridge - How Did You Decide!?!?

Hi

I want to study Maths at Oxford or Cambridge but am yet to deviate between the two. You may have seen a couple of my threads in the Oxford and Cambridge forums trying to decide on my shortlist of colleges at each university. Unfortunately, I remain as confused as ever as to which university to apply to! Each has it's own pro's and con's, and everytime I manage to convince myself through logical reason to apply to one, I conjure up some sort of counter argument about why I should be applying to the other. Firstly, my shortlist of colleges in order of preference for each (not as yet definitive):

Oxford
St. John's
Wadham
Christ Church
St. Catz
Worcestor

Cambridge
King's
Churchill
St. John's
Queen's
Trinity

I am planning to go back to each university and visit every shortlisted college and will then come to my definite first choice college for each. Now for my personal list of thought processes for each university (which may differ in opinion to other's):

Oxford

•

Generally perceived to be 'less hard' to get into, and I definitely feel I have a greater chance of getting an offer

•

Oxford seems a nicer city to live in

•

Oxford is closer to home

•

I feel more attracted to some of my shortlisted colleges

•

An Oxford degree in Maths would be more than adequate for a good job in my desired line of work (Actuarial work) i.e. a Cambridge degree will not give an advantage, so why take the risk of not getting in?

•

All colleges give a test at interview, which I'd prefer

•

STEP papers are not part of the conditional offer

•

The Mathematical Institute building leaves much to be desired

•

Not all colleges provide accomodation for the duration of the course

Cambridge

•

Generally perceived as 'better' for Maths

•

Will provide the grandeur of having studied Maths at Cambridge

•

Will rid me of the underlying questions: 'Would I have got into Cambridge?' and 'What if I'd gone to Cambridge?'

•

Not all colleges give a test at interview, which is my preference so my choice of colleges is limited

•

The Mathematcial Institute building looks like something by NASA (which is good :wink: )

•

Cambridge colleges tend to have greater annual intakes of Mathematicians

•

Cambridge colleges tend to provide accomodation for the duration of the course

As you can see, I'm in quite a conundrum. Current students, or students with offers to study Maths at Oxbridge, how did you decide where to apply to!? Any feedback you can offer will be of paramount importance in terms of trying to decide where to apply, so many thanks in advance. I've incorporated a poll to make clear your recommendations, based on my opinions.

Reply 60

RichE

15

FWoodhouse

Rubbish, there're plenty of STEP questions which need clever thinking. Some of the integration ones especially can require a fair bit of thought before you suddenly realise exactly how to do it. What you described is AEA, not STEP.

Seems a bit harsh - this was only Chumbaniya's opinion after all.

Reply 61

FWoodhouse

5

RichE

Seems a bit harsh - this was only Chumbaniya's opinion after all.

Sorry, I didn't mean it to come out harsh. Replace 'Rubbish' with 'Nonsense' or somesuch. Or insert smilies to taste.

I just don't like having something I worked hard at for 6 months dismissed as A-level missing a few steps.

Reply 62

RichE

15

kizer

Application to place ratio may be the same, but the quality of the candidates -at least at the very top - is different. Pretty much all the IMO squad members apply to Cambridge, and most of those to Trinity. Because Cambridge has more of a reputation, you might also expect more confident people to apply.

It seems undoubtedly the case that a great many of the IMO candidates apply to Cambridge (though there are two at my Oxford college). I could also agree that more confident mathematicians (as a rule of thumb) apply to Cambridge, but I'm not convinced greater confidence implies greater talent - I can think of examples on TSR to the contrary and I think many people in Oxbridge have, at admissions time, found obnoxious, over-confident types who don't subsequently get a place because tutors saw through the bluster!

I would not think for a moment to slate Cambridge mathematics - it is a superb course and has superb students on it. However I get quite aggravated at comments (like the one I recently saw) which state that anyone good enough for Cambridge wouldn't think of applying to Oxford - without realising such comments might have induced applicants to do so in the first place, and it does make one wonder what the two IMOs I know were thinking of!

Reply 63

RichE

15

FWoodhouse

Sorry, I didn't mean it to come out harsh. Replace 'Rubbish' with 'Nonsense' or somesuch. Or insert smilies to taste.

I just don't like having something I worked hard at for 6 months dismissed as A-level missing a few steps.

Ignore me too - think I may be out of sorts! (How does one ever tell?!) :smile:

Reply 64

Chumbaniya

17

FWoodhouse

Rubbish, there're plenty of STEP questions which need clever thinking. Some of the integration ones especially can require a fair bit of thought before you suddenly realise exactly how to do it. What you described is AEA, not STEP.

It's just my opinion. I've seen STEP questions, I've practised doing them, and for me at least there doesn't seem to be much real thinking to do. Maybe that's just the way my mind works, but I'm entitled to share my view on how difficult they seem to me, aren't I?

I'm not dismissing STEP either. Just because I don't see it in the same way as others do doesn't make it invalid. I'm sure I still hold the minority view with regards to it's difficlty, anyway.

Reply 65

FWoodhouse

5

Chumbaniya

It's just my opinion. I've seen STEP questions, I've practised doing them, and for me at least there doesn't seem to be much real thinking to do. Maybe that's just the way my mind works, but I'm entitled to share my view on how difficult they seem to me, aren't I?

I'm not dismissing STEP either. Just because I don't see it in the same way as others do doesn't make it invalid. I'm sure I still hold the minority view with regards to it's difficlty, anyway.

No, your opinion is fine, I was just a little annoyed. I wish I hadn't said anything now.

Reply 66

Wrangler

2

RichE

It seems undoubtedly the case that a great many of the IMO candidates apply to Cambridge (though there are two at my Oxford college). I could also agree that more confident mathematicians (as a rule of thumb) apply to Cambridge, but I'm not convinced greater confidence implies greater talent - I can think of examples on TSR to the contrary and I think many people in Oxbridge have, at admissions time, found obnoxious, over-confident types who don't subsequently get a place because tutors saw through the bluster!

I would not think for a moment to slate Cambridge mathematics - it is a superb course and has superb students on it. However I get quite aggravated at comments (like the one I recently saw) which state that anyone good enough for Cambridge wouldn't think of applying to Oxford - without realising such comments might have induced applicants to do so in the first place, and it does make one wonder what the two IMOs I know were thinking of!

I wholeheartedly agree. I often feel that to some extent, some Cambridge applicants use it as a get-out clause: "I reckon I'd get into Oxford, but I tried Cambridge because... blah, blah". I've seen a fair few less-than-brilliant mathmos at Cambridge, and know of some amazing minds at Oxford! There's certainly no clear cut line between the standard of applicants/students on the two courses.

While it is entirely possible (to a certain extent) to make a quantitative comparison of exam questions, course content, example sheets etc - there's no sure fire way of comparing the people who apply to each place!

:smile:

Reply 67

RichE

15

Wrangler

I wholeheartedly agree. I often feel that to some extent, some Cambridge applicants use it as a get-out clause: "I reckon I'd get into Oxford, but I tried Cambridge because... blah, blah". I've seen a fair few less-than-brilliant mathmos at Cambridge, and know of some amazing minds at Oxford! There's certainly no clear cut line between the standard of applicants/students on the two courses.

While it is entirely possible (to a certain extent) to make a quantitative comparison of exam questions, course content, example sheets etc - there's no sure fire way of comparing the people who apply to each place!

:smile:

Thank you! :smile:

Have a shiny gem! :biggrin:

Reply 68

KAISER_MOLE

7

Disperser of Shiny gems as a profession, considered it yet?

Fair enough with some peoples views with STEP. I'd go as far as to say BMO just uses more recondite methods than STEP, you can still get trained in the methods that crop up and ways of going about types of questions.

Reply 69

wanderer

2

KAISER_MOLE

Disperser of Shiny gems as a profession, considered it yet?

Fair enough with some peoples views with STEP. I'd go as far as to say BMO just uses more recondite methods than STEP, you can still get trained in the methods that crop up and ways of going about types of questions.

*Takes the logical next step and applies this to all maths, at which point everyone in the thread gives up on life an promptly drops dead* :wink:

Reply 70

Dragon Girl

ShaneP

Current students, or students with offers to study Maths at Oxbridge, how did you decide where to apply to!?

I mentioned Glasgow Uni cos I had this joke about going as far away from home as possible (there is also an English-speaking Uni in Prague!), and when my Head of Sixth heard, he said "Glasgow for Maths??? She has to go to Cambridge!"

Before that, I hadn't really thought I was good enough to apply, and didn't ask as didn't want to seem arrogant :redface:

, but with his encouragement, I applied.

Reply 71

apd35

9

Dragon Girl

I mentioned Glasgow Uni cos I had this joke about going as far away from home as possible (there is also an English-speaking Uni in Prague!), and when my Head of Sixth heard, he said "Glasgow for Maths??? She has to go to Cambridge!"

Before that, I hadn't really thought I was good enough to apply, and didn't ask as didn't want to seem arrogant :redface:

, but with his encouragement, I applied.

To be fair that's probably because, at least in my year, Glasgow asks for CCD for Maths.

Reply 72

Dragon Girl

apd35

To be fair that's probably because, at least in my year, Glasgow asks for CCD for Maths.

I wasn't serious about Glasgow though - it was just a joke. I'm sure Glasgow is a lovely place though.

Reply 73

Loocy

Dragon Girl

I wasn't serious about Glasgow though - it was just a joke. I'm sure Glasgow is a lovely place though.

Damn straight. :p:

On a more serious note the offers Glasgow make will probably be lower than English unis in general because of the whole higher/A-level comparison, but I could be wrong.

Reply 74

gooseymcgoose

11

I doubt they make lower Alevel offers to Alevel candidates just because Alevels/AHs are different.

Reply 75

ad absurdum

2

They make lower offers for advanced highers than they do for a-levels (well, I was told that if they made me an offer it would be that way)

Reply 76

gooseymcgoose

11

ad absurdum

They make lower offers for advanced highers than they do for a-levels (well, I was told that if they made me an offer it would be that way)

I'm aware of this - but how does this affect the offer they make to Alevel candidates?

Reply 77

ad absurdum

2

not

I'm aware of this - but how does this affect the offer they make to Alevel candidates?

Oh sorry, I only read your post when I checked the thread, and misread it at that :redface:

I don't understand what Loocy means either.

Reply 78

meef cheese

10

I understand what Loocy means. To get into the first year of a course, you only need Highers which are roughly equivalent to AS-levels. For some reason, they don't like to make offers on AS alone (no-one in England does AS only anyway, right?) so they make lower offers based on A2.

Of course, you can get into 2nd year with good A2 grades or good Advanced Higher grades.

Reply 79

z0mbie

e-unit

Do you not then have funding problems for Part III, which you wouldn't have if you did your BA at Cambridge?

Apply for 4 year funding as if you are going to do the four year msci in maths at oxford. The fourth year of the student loan can then be put towards part III.

Maths at Oxford or Cambridge - How Did You Decide!?!?

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