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FP3 matrices

Hi

I'm told that three planes have the following equations:

3x+yz=13x + y - z = 1

xy+kz=7x - y + kz = 7

2x+kyz=12x + ky - z = -1


Find the possible values of the constant k for which the equations do not have a unique solution.

I don't really understand what they're asking for. Here's the worked solution for it (Q 8) but I'm afraid this doesn't help me much.

I understand that they've made the three equations in a singular matrix but why does this tell you the values for when "the equations do not have a unique solution"?

In summary, I don't understand the implications on the three equations if the value of k is 11 or 23-\frac{2}{3} (i.e. the values where the matrix of the three equations is singular).

I don't think this is strictly on my syllabus (I can't find it in any of my textbooks) but it'd be nice to understand it anyway.

Thank you :biggrin:

Reply 1
Original post by so it goes
Hi

I'm told that three planes have the following equations:

3x+yz=13x + y - z = 1

xy+kz=7x - y + kz = 7

2x+kyz=12x + ky - z = -1


Find the possible values of the constant k for which the equations do not have a unique solution.

I don't really understand what they're asking for. Here's the worked solution for it (Q 8) but I'm afraid this doesn't help me much.

I understand that they've made the three equations in a singular matrix but why does this tell you the values for when "the equations do not have a unique solution"?

In summary, I don't understand the implications on the three equations if the value of k is 11 or 23-\frac{2}{3} (i.e. the values where the matrix of the three equations is singular).

I don't think this is strictly on my syllabus (I can't find it in any of my textbooks) but it'd be nice to understand it anyway.

Thank you :biggrin:


When the matrix is singular, there is no unique solution.

Do you know how to find the solution of a set of simultaneous equations by using matrices?
Reply 2
Original post by so it goes
Hi

I'm told that three planes have the following equations:

3x+yz=13x + y - z = 1

xy+kz=7x - y + kz = 7

2x+kyz=12x + ky - z = -1


Find the possible values of the constant k for which the equations do not have a unique solution.

I don't really understand what they're asking for. Here's the worked solution for it (Q 8) but I'm afraid this doesn't help me much.

I understand that they've made the three equations in a singular matrix but why does this tell you the values for when "the equations do not have a unique solution"?

In summary, I don't understand the implications on the three equations if the value of k is 11 or 23-\frac{2}{3} (i.e. the values where the matrix of the three equations is singular).

I don't think this is strictly on my syllabus (I can't find it in any of my textbooks) but it'd be nice to understand it anyway.

Thank you :biggrin:



If you were just solving linear equations (forgetting about the geometry) then you could rewrite them as a matrix equation. If the matrix of coefficients had an inverse, you could multiply both sides by that inverse to get a unique solution for x,y,z.

A unique solution corresponds to the 3 planes meeting at a point, so this question is about identifying the other cases.

The rest of it is just sorting out whether all 3 planes meet in a single line, or meet in pairs at different lines, or 2 (or more) are parallel to each other.
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 3
Original post by davros
If you were just solving linear equations (forgetting about the geometry) then you could rewrite them as a matrix equation. If the matrix of coefficients had an inverse, you could multiply both sides by that inverse to get a unique solution for x,y,z.

However, if the equations represent planes, we can't have a unique solution - because 3 planes can't meet at a point (try it with 3 sheets of cardboard if you don't believe me!). Therefore the matrix can't have an inverse i.e. it is singular.

The rest of it is just sorting out whether all 3 planes meet in a single line, or meet in pairs at different lines, or 2 (or more) are parallel to each other.


Ahh, I see :biggrin:

Thank you! That's quite cool :smile:
(edited 10 years ago)
Reply 4
Original post by alow
When the matrix is singular, there is no unique solution.

Do you know how to find the solution of a set of simultaneous equations by using matrices?



Ye, I think I had a look at that a little while back. Thank you, I think I get what's going on now :biggrin:
Reply 5
Original post by davros
If you were just solving linear equations (forgetting about the geometry) then you could rewrite them as a matrix equation. If the matrix of coefficients had an inverse, you could multiply both sides by that inverse to get a unique solution for x,y,z.

However, if the equations represent planes, we can't have a unique solution - because 3 planes can't meet at a point (try it with 3 sheets of cardboard if you don't believe me!). Therefore the matrix can't have an inverse i.e. it is singular.

The rest of it is just sorting out whether all 3 planes meet in a single line, or meet in pairs at different lines, or 2 (or more) are parallel to each other.


Actually, sorry, but I can't quite see why three planes can't meet at a point. For example, if you look at the first diagram in this link, it looks like they meet at just a point. I know I'm missing something here but can't quite see what.

Thank you :biggrin:
Reply 6
Original post by so it goes
Actually, sorry, but I can't quite see why three planes can't meet at a point. For example, if you look at the first diagram in this link, it looks like they meet at just a point. I know I'm missing something here but can't quite see what.

Thank you :biggrin:


3 planes can meet in a point. 2 planes however, cannot.
Reply 7
Original post by davros
If you were just solving linear equations (forgetting about the geometry) then you could rewrite them as a matrix equation. If the matrix of coefficients had an inverse, you could multiply both sides by that inverse to get a unique solution for x,y,z.

However, if the equations represent planes, we can't have a unique solution - because 3 planes can't meet at a point (try it with 3 sheets of cardboard if you don't believe me!). Therefore the matrix can't have an inverse i.e. it is singular.



Three planes can indeed meet at a point - consider the perpendicular planes x=0, y=0, z=0, which meet at the origin as the most obvious example. And indeed this is the condition for 3 linear equations having a unique solution - if the planes they represent meet at a point, there is only one point in 3-space that satisfies them all, so it is unique.
Reply 8
Original post by so it goes
Actually, sorry, but I can't quite see why three planes can't meet at a point. For example, if you look at the first diagram in this link, it looks like they meet at just a point. I know I'm missing something here but can't quite see what.

Thank you :biggrin:



Original post by atsruser
Three planes can indeed meet at a point - consider the perpendicular planes x=0, y=0, z=0, which meet at the origin as the most obvious example. And indeed this is the condition for 3 linear equations having a unique solution - if the planes they represent meet at a point, there is only one point in 3-space that satisfies them all, so it is unique.


Yeah, sorry, I've always had trouble with 3 dimensions :biggrin:
Reply 9
Original post by davros
Yeah, sorry, I've always had trouble with 3 dimensions :biggrin:


2D causes me problems :P

Original post by atsruser
Three planes can indeed meet at a point - consider the perpendicular planes x=0, y=0, z=0, which meet at the origin as the most obvious example. And indeed this is the condition for 3 linear equations having a unique solution - if the planes they represent meet at a point, there is only one point in 3-space that satisfies them all, so it is unique.


Original post by alow
3 planes can meet in a point. 2 planes however, cannot.


Ahh, thank you! This makes sense now :biggrin:

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