EU commissioner admits 75-80% of national laws come from EU and are translated Watch

Welsh Bluebird
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#1


So pro EU people, is this EU commissioner a liar too?

'...the truth is that most laws which are applied and executed and implemented at national level are based on European laws, directives, which then have to be translated into national laws so the biggest part of a legislation which is applied in a given member state in 1 of the 28 is decided by the European parliament in co-decision with the council of European ministers and that is why its so important that people are aware of the power that they entrust to the European parliamentarians'


So even an EU commissioner is undermining our deputy PM's claims.

Can't say I'm surprised given Clegg's track record or is she clueless and a liar too?

Im sure the people of TSR know better than an EU commissioner.
3
reply
Juichiro
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#2
Report 4 years ago
#2
I knew you had an obsession with the UE. Yes, we get it, the UE is not the most transparent entity. But if you want out, you have to make sure you know where are you going. With the US disapproval and the UE's bitterness, the UK is not playing with the big boys anymore. The world is a connected place and your strength is measured in the number of top connections you have.
0
reply
Pulse.
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#3
Report 4 years ago
#3
Still though makes Clegg seem even more of a liar to the public understating what is dictated by the EU.

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
Falcatas
Badges: 7
Rep:
?
#4
Report 4 years ago
#4
Remember when Clegg called Farage's idea of an EU army as fantasy?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...programme.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...European_Union


Clegg lies again.
1
reply
username207685
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#5
Report 4 years ago
#5
(Original post by Mickey O'Neil)
So even an EU commissioner is undermining our deputy PM's claims.

Can't say I'm surprised given Clegg's track record or is she clueless and a liar too?

Im sure the people of TSR know better than an EU commissioner.
I'm sure the House of Commons Library knows better than the lot of them:

In the UK data suggest that from 1997 to 2009 6.8% of primary legislation (Statutes) and
14.1% of secondary legislation (Statutory Instruments) had a role in implementing EU
obligations, although the degree of involvement varied from passing reference to explicit
implementation. Estimates of the proportion of national laws based on EU laws in other
EU Member States vary widely, ranging from around 6% to 84%.
2
reply
username1221160
Badges: 19
Rep:
?
#6
Report 4 years ago
#6
The idea that most of our laws come from the Eu is often stated. But those stating it either are ignorant of or chose to ignore that all laws are not equal. Primary legislation on education or crime is far more important than changes to say a dozen Eu directives about food additives or livestock transportation. Lumping them all together is just dishonest.
0
reply
Welsh Bluebird
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#7
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#7
(Original post by Juichiro)
I knew you had an obsession with the UE. Yes, we get it, the UE is not the most transparent entity. But if you want out, you have to make sure you know where are you going. With the US disapproval and the UE's bitterness, the UK is not playing with the big boys anymore. The world is a connected place and your strength is measured in the number of top connections you have.
Laughable. One, even the USA aren't happy about the EU's plan for a militarised union. I wonder why? :rolleyes:

Two, the world is a connected place and just withdrawing from the EU does not cut us off. Iceland has set up deals with big economies and they have a much smaller economy than us. We're in a very strong position to negotiate actually. The problem is, those within parliament don't like real work. They enjoy arguing all day in the HoC's and then kissing and making up afterwards but they're all cut from the same cloth. They're all happy as long as they're getting paid.

(Original post by betaglucowhat)
I'm sure the House of Commons Library knows better than the lot of them:
I doubt it. She's an EU commissioner. The House of Common's Library has various figures given. I'll take her word for it. If she's wrong then she's clearly **** at her job and it further goes to prove why none of these people should be trusted. Either she's right, good at her job and we accept the figure or she's wrong, crap at her job and we don't accept it. Either way, its worrying to the average person with a degree of common sense.
0
reply
Welsh Bluebird
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#8
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#8
(Original post by Quantex)
The idea that most of our laws come from the Eu is often stated. But those stating it either are ignorant of or chose to ignore that all laws are not equal. Primary legislation on education or crime is far more important than changes to say a dozen Eu directives about food additives or livestock transportation. Lumping them all together is just dishonest.
Completely understand your point. Even so, 75-80% is too much. 1% is too much. We should control 100% of our own legislation and it should not be translated from within the EU.
0
reply
gladders
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#9
Report 4 years ago
#9
If you count every single gentleman's agreement, informal accord, mutual understanding and non-binding guidance, yes, 80% of UK law is brought about via the EU. But actual, enforcing law is considerably less, hence the House of Commons figures.
1
reply
ChaoticButterfly
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#10
Report 4 years ago
#10
(Original post by Juichiro)
I knew you had an obsession with the UE. Yes, we get it, the UE is not the most transparent entity. But if you want out, you have to make sure you know where are you going. With the US disapproval and the UE's bitterness, the UK is not playing with the big boys anymore. The world is a connected place and your strength is measured in the number of top connections you have.
All submit to our masters then.
0
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#11
Report 4 years ago
#11
(Original post by Mickey O'Neil)
Completely understand your point. Even so, 75-80% is too much. 1% is too much. We should control 100% of our own legislation and it should not be translated from within the EU.
If you're completely against the EU, why raise issues like what percentage of legislation comes from the EU? You just basically said you don't care if it's even 1%.

Back on the figures question, most of that percentage she's talking about relates to the trivia of harmonisation questions, the EU dumps down huge volumes of material about lightbulb dimensions and the types of materials to be used in coffee grinders. I don't support the obsession with microscopically detailed harmonisation, but it's noteworthy that the US is also busy signing up for it at the moment with the EU, so there appears to be logic behind it as regards what big business wants at least.

An EU of citizens would be very different to the EU of business which is basically what drives a lot of this legislation.
1
reply
SHallowvale
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#12
Report 4 years ago
#12
(Original post by Mickey O'Neil)


So pro EU people, is this EU commissioner a liar too?

'...the truth is that most laws which are applied and executed and implemented at national level are based on European laws, directives, which then have to be translated into national laws so the biggest part of a legislation which is applied in a given member state in 1 of the 28 is decided by the European parliament in co-decision with the council of European ministers and that is why its so important that people are aware of the power that they entrust to the European parliamentarians'


So even an EU commissioner is undermining our deputy PM's claims.

Can't say I'm surprised given Clegg's track record or is she clueless and a liar too?

Im sure the people of TSR know better than an EU commissioner.
When she says that 75-80% of national laws come from the EU she is referring specifically to Sweden, not the UK.

Personally I view the figure presented by the House of Commons Library to be more credible than Viviane Reding's estimate; she probably lacks the resources available to determine how many national laws we make ourselves and thus the percentage of laws in this country that have been influenced by the EU. In addition, there are probably many EU laws that we don't bother considering as they don't really apply to us (such as those concerning the Eurozone, the Schengen Area, tobacco/olive production, etc).

Is she lying? I don't know. I think that her statement is very vague regardless, so i'm not too sure why we should take this so seriously.
0
reply
Fullofsurprises
Badges: 20
Rep:
?
#13
Report 4 years ago
#13
(Original post by SHallowvale)
When she says that 75-80% of national laws come from the EU she is referring specifically to Sweden, not the UK.

Personally I view the figure presented by the House of Commons Library to be more credible than Viviane Reding's estimate; she probably lacks the resources available to determine how many national laws we make ourselves and thus the percentage of laws in this country that have been influenced by the EU. In addition, there are probably many EU laws that we don't bother considering as they don't really apply to us (such as those concerning the Eurozone, the Schengen Area, tobacco/olive production, etc).

Is she lying? I don't know. I think that her statement is very vague regardless, so i'm not too sure why we should take this so seriously.
She does specifically say that she doesn't just mean Sweden. I think she's well placed as a Commissioner to know the facts, although some Commissioners have revealed ignorance about both their jobs and the workings of the EU in the past.

The percentage thing has been argued over for many years - it depends on a variety of factors. The H of C Library takes a narrow view of what counts as 'EU-driven'. Books and articles critical of the extent to which the EU controls member states take a broader interpretation.

What many people object to (and I don't like it either) is the way that EU directives are often hidden, or not referenced, by national governments. For example, HS2 is very much part of an EU directive to implement high speed rail across Europe, yet this is not discussed by the British media, parliamentarians (not even at select committee level) or the government. It appears as if it is a purely British initiative. I don't know why the media don't raise things like this more. The motive for the government is clearer - they don't want to further promote UKIP and they want to look 'in charge'.

This matters, because the EU often is insufficiently sensitive to local conditions and needs within a member state. High speed rail is fine for the wide open spaces of France, Spain or Germany. It is less appropriate to the UK's overcrowded and pressurised landscapes.
0
reply
SHallowvale
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#14
Report 4 years ago
#14
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
She does specifically say that she doesn't just mean Sweden. I think she's well placed as a Commissioner to know the facts, although some Commissioners have revealed ignorance about both their jobs and the workings of the EU in the past.
I'm not sure. When she said that all member states are equal, and that none are given special treatment, it sounded more like she was referring to the general principles of the EU and not the percentages of laws influenced by the EU in each member state. That's why I find her statement rather ambiguous.

(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
The percentage thing has been argued over for many years - it depends on a variety of factors. The H of C Library takes a narrow view of what counts as 'EU-driven'. Books and articles critical of the extent to which the EU controls member states take a broader interpretation.
Such as?
0
reply
Welsh Bluebird
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#15
Report Thread starter 4 years ago
#15
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
She does specifically say that she doesn't just mean Sweden. I think she's well placed as a Commissioner to know the facts, although some Commissioners have revealed ignorance about both their jobs and the workings of the EU in the past.

The percentage thing has been argued over for many years - it depends on a variety of factors. The H of C Library takes a narrow view of what counts as 'EU-driven'. Books and articles critical of the extent to which the EU controls member states take a broader interpretation.

What many people object to (and I don't like it either) is the way that EU directives are often hidden, or not referenced, by national governments. For example, HS2 is very much part of an EU directive to implement high speed rail across Europe, yet this is not discussed by the British media, parliamentarians (not even at select committee level) or the government. It appears as if it is a purely British initiative. I don't know why the media don't raise things like this more. The motive for the government is clearer - they don't want to further promote UKIP and they want to look 'in charge'.

This matters, because the EU often is insufficiently sensitive to local conditions and needs within a member state. High speed rail is fine for the wide open spaces of France, Spain or Germany. It is less appropriate to the UK's overcrowded and pressurised landscapes.
Can I just say thanks for not trying to twist things
0
reply
Teaddict
Badges: 17
Rep:
?
#16
Report 4 years ago
#16
While it is probably true that the European Union makes a majority of our laws, to suggest this is important is misleading. The important aspect is what laws they are making, not how many. Unsurprisingly, the single market requires significant regulation. If you take each law as equally important, the Single European Act was the single largest transfer of powers this country has ever seen. Yet most would agree it was important. It is about what laws are made, not how many.
3
reply
I am not finite
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#17
Report 4 years ago
#17
(Original post by betaglucowhat)
I'm sure the House of Commons Library knows better than the lot of them:
Library? Who wrote the books? Maybe the EU have books to record these things as well.
0
reply
username207685
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#18
Report 4 years ago
#18
(Original post by I am not finite)
Library? Who wrote the books? Maybe the EU have books to record these things as well.
It isn't a regular library.

http://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-a...ommonslibrary/

www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/RP10-62.pdf‎

We've seen from the House of Commons Library that the 75-80% figure is incorrect, and heard from Viviane Reding's (the EU commissioner in the OP) press office that the figure itself has nothing to do with the percent of UK laws that come from Brussels, but rather concerns laws "where the European Parliament ... has an equal say to the European Council ... on EU laws, not UK laws" (and additionally that they believe Reding's comments have been misinterpreted to mean what the OP is alleging).

So we have the UK body tasked with knowing this sort of stuff telling us the claim in the OP is wrong, and the person who made the statement's press office saying the statement is being misinterpreted and doesn't mean what the OP is claiming it does. This may or may not be to cover Reding having used the wrong figures, but that is not the topic of this thread. There are inherent problems in even trying to come up with a percentage and different methodologies will produce different results, but so far no one has produced evidence that the figure quoted in the OP is correct, and the two most relevant sources say it is wrong.

"75-80% of UK national laws come from the EU" is an incorrect statement. This doesn't seem to matter though, as the OP has said "1% is too much. We should control 100% of our own legislation and it should not be translated from within the EU" - this thread is more about the principle of rejecting any laws coming from Europe. The figure in the OP was just a potentially useful fiction.
0
reply
gladders
Badges: 15
Rep:
?
#19
Report 4 years ago
#19
As I said to OP once before, 1%, 100%, it doesn't matter how much of our law is made by the EU - if it ends up enriching the country further, I am prepared to accept it.
0
reply
Tamora
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#20
Report 4 years ago
#20
(Original post by gladders)
As I said to OP once before, 1%, 100%, it doesn't matter how much of our law is made by the EU - if it ends up enriching the country further, I am prepared to accept it.
What about when it doesn't enrich our lives? What then?
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Do unconditional offers make teenagers lazy?

Yes (44)
60.27%
No (29)
39.73%

Watched Threads

View All