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drago di giada
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Jonatan)
I thnk the problem is not the theoretical ethics in a situation where we know all circumstances, but what if we are mistaken. What if this will lead to people being right out murdered, also, most suecides are impulsive acts and when the person survives he most oftenly does not try again. The question is not whether we should allow someone to die when we are absolutely certain that there is nothing more we can do for him/her the question is what will happen in all those cases when someone (a doctor or a jury or whoever) makes a mistake. It all looks very nice on paper, but how does it work out in reality?
News Flash.. people are already being murdered. And for no good reason.
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Sasuke!
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#22
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#22
in general i would agree that it is justified and no one should be left to live in so much pain, im not toos ure what its called when the person is in a coma and they cant talk then it would depend because if they were religious then i guess that they would want to live in pain till the end because its something to do with not being accepted in heaven beacsue you took teh easy way out by getting someone to kill you.

just curious if there was really a heaven, God etc wouldnt he give us signs that they are there? so that we can work for something and know that we will be rewarded after life? and then how would Christianity have developed if there was no God? well im not too sure if i believe in God but i think that there must be a higher being that created everything ...
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Howard
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#23
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#23
(Original post by vmong)
well im not too sure if i believe in God but i think that there must be a higher being that created everything ...
Huh? :confused:
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yawn1
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Howard)
Huh? :confused:
vmong was saying he/she thinks there must be a higher being who created everything.

Why does that sentence confuse you?

You may not agree with it but I am puzzled by your bewilderment - it is very out of character
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Howard
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#25
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#25
(Original post by yawn1)
vmong was saying he/she thinks there must be a higher being who created everything.

Why does that sentence confuse you?

You may not agree with it but I am puzzled by your bewilderment - it is very out of character
Well, he's saying he doesn't believe in God but he does believe in a higher being that created everything.

I'd have thought that if there was one being that was so omnipotent as to be able to create everything then, by any normal definition, that being would be God.

Hence my confusion.
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PQ
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#26
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#26
(Original post by JoKing)
But what about the person helping someone to committ suicide...the knowledge, you killed someone must be awful to live with or even accept...in spite of the relief of suffering.

JoKing.
It's very likely I will at some point be asked by my husband to end his life. Personally I see fulfilling his last wish as a final expression of my love and although it will hurt like hell I don't believe I will feel guilty.

With this in mind I do NOT want euthanasia legalised.

I would rather risk prison than live with the guilt that one person died uneccesarily to make it easier on me.
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PQ
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#27
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#27
http://www.rednoseday.com/aboutthemo...derabuse.shtml

It is estimated that up to 1 in 10 older people are victims of some form of abuse.
With figures like that I do not believe that the UK is ready to accept the responsibility that comes with legalised euthanasia.
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randdom
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#28
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#28
My mother has sever MS and we have all sat down and discussed the fact that one day she may want to end her life rather than go on suffering in the amount of pain she is in. Now my mum is perfactly sane and knows what she wants. I don't see why as an adult she should be forced to die slowly and painfull as we are all aware that she eventually will. Now she is not saying that she wants to die now just that when she gets to that point she may want to. The problem is that she wouldn't be able to kill herself and anyone who helped her would possibly go to prison for murder which is why is won't happen. I just don't see why she shouldn't be allowed to choose to kill herself after all it is her life. Personally I would like it if she didn't because I want my mum around for as long as she can be, but I have realised that it is selfish to make her suffer like that and we should be supporting her in this choice.

I don't know what will happen when we get to that stage I mean I know that I couldn't help her but it would be nice to know that if someone does help her carry out her final wish that they wouldn't be risking a murder chance. This is the reason that I believe euthanasia is right. I love my mum with all my heart but in the end of the day I believe it should be her choice and she shouldn't be forced to die a painful death.
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PQ
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#29
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#29
(Original post by randdom)
anyone who helped her would possibly go to prison for murder
I've researched this fairly thouroughly and cannot find one single case of a suicide assister being sent to prison (or even convicted of manslaughter) - especially where the assistees wishes were well documented and widely known.

The legal system and the police in this country have asurprising amount of compassion and common sense when it comes to cases like this. They will often investigate to ensure that the people assisting had nothing to gain and that it was definitly the wishes of the assistee but I've not come across one case where they've charged someone (never mind allowing the case to get to the courts). There have been people who've pleaded mercy killings/euthansia in circumstances where the assistees wishes were *not* documented/publicised and who've often had financial gains from the death - ie were murderers have tried to use euthanasia as a get out clause.
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randdom
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#30
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#30
But it would always be a possibility hanging over the person who helped head and I don't agree with that.
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PQ
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#31
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#31
(Original post by randdom)
But it would always be a possibility hanging over the person who helped head and I don't agree with that.
That's fair enough

Personally I'd rather live with that risk than live with the guilt that someone like my husband (or your mum) could be killed against their wishes and for other peoples benefit.

I believe that people who are in the situation where they *may* be judged as ready to die need more protection from the law than the people who are willing to help them.

And I certainly don't believe that any doctor should have to take that decision and kill their patient no matter how much paperwork is involved.
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Everdawn
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#32
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#32
I think everyone has a right to say when they want to be euthanased. It should be written permission. I think not to would be a horrible thing.
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Niaya
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#33
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#33
i think that people have a right to end their life when they want whats the point in someone staying alive and being a burden on the goverment if they really dont want to be here
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Sasuke!
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#34
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#34
"Euthanasia is defined as the "mercy killing" of a person who is brain dead, terminally ill or otherwise at death's door. This usually, but not necessarily, affects people who are are separated from death only by machines. Whether you personally believe "mercy killing" is a viable solution in a hopeless situation or not the proponents for bothm sides provide arguments that can be quite convincing. Supporters of euthanasia say thatm it is such an improbability for a miraculous recovery and a return to a normal life that
it is not worth putting the patient through all the suffering and agony that prolonging their life would cause or the fortune of hospital bills that you would pay. The opposition feels that it is not right for people to abandon other members of the human race because there is always a chance, even though it is a small one, that they will regain all functons and return to a normal life."

This is someones arguement i found when typed into google i think it sums it up
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DevilsDoor
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#35
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#35
Ok, read the thread so far and everyone has mentioned euthanasia in respect of those terminally ill, what about those whose pain cannot be seen, maybe severe mental illness, such as alzheimers, others that have a mental ailment, but are still capable of making their own mind up?

There are 2 certainties in life, we are born, we die. The choice to be born is one we have no control over, therefore shouldnt we at least have some control over our death?

The hypocratic oath (have I got that right?) that the medical profession swear is an oath to preserve life, therefore they cannot make a decision to end life, they can put forward the reasons for doing so, but cannot actually do it themselves, hence why the families of people on life support machines are asked for their permission to turn them off.

Surely the choice of whether we want to continue with life, is one we should be allowed to make. If you have genuinely reached a point in your life, where you no longer want to be part of humanity, who are we to say they should stay? I can hear the arguments, what if your just having a bad day, what if its a period of depression that will get better? Look on it from the point of view of the person wanting to end life, can you honestly say you know how they feel, or what they are going through? It should be (for those that are in a state of compes mentis) a personal decision, one that can be made without being condemned for it, as many suicides are.

No matter how you die, or the reason for it, we still leave behind people that have loved us and cared for us, there will still be elements of blame and guilt.

We do not let animals suffer when they are in pain, so why should we let humans suffer and who determines the level of suffering?

Overall I agree with Euthanasia
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randdom
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#36
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#36
(Original post by DevilsDoor)
Ok, read the thread so far and everyone has mentioned euthanasia in respect of those terminally ill, what about those whose pain cannot be seen, maybe severe mental illness, such as alzheimers, others that have a mental ailment, but are still capable of making their own mind up?

There are 2 certainties in life, we are born, we die. The choice to be born is one we have no control over, therefore shouldnt we at least have some control over our death?

The hypocratic oath (have I got that right?) that the medical profession swear is an oath to preserve life, therefore they cannot make a decision to end life, they can put forward the reasons for doing so, but cannot actually do it themselves, hence why the families of people on life support machines are asked for their permission to turn them off.

Surely the choice of whether we want to continue with life, is one we should be allowed to make. If you have genuinely reached a point in your life, where you no longer want to be part of humanity, who are we to say they should stay? I can hear the arguments, what if your just having a bad day, what if its a period of depression that will get better? Look on it from the point of view of the person wanting to end life, can you honestly say you know how they feel, or what they are going through? It should be (for those that are in a state of compes mentis) a personal decision, one that can be made without being condemned for it, as many suicides are.

No matter how you die, or the reason for it, we still leave behind people that have loved us and cared for us, there will still be elements of blame and guilt.

We do not let animals suffer when they are in pain, so why should we let humans suffer and who determines the level of suffering?

Overall I agree with Euthanasia
That is a wonderful way to put it and I agree 100%
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yawn1
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#37
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#37
(Original post by DevilsDoor)
Ok, read the thread so far and everyone has mentioned euthanasia in respect of those terminally ill, what about those whose pain cannot be seen, maybe severe mental illness, such as alzheimers, others that have a mental ailment, but are still capable of making their own mind up?

There are 2 certainties in life, we are born, we die. The choice to be born is one we have no control over, therefore shouldnt we at least have some control over our death?

The hypocratic oath (have I got that right?) that the medical profession swear is an oath to preserve life, therefore they cannot make a decision to end life, they can put forward the reasons for doing so, but cannot actually do it themselves, hence why the families of people on life support machines are asked for their permission to turn them off.

Surely the choice of whether we want to continue with life, is one we should be allowed to make. If you have genuinely reached a point in your life, where you no longer want to be part of humanity, who are we to say they should stay? I can hear the arguments, what if your just having a bad day, what if its a period of depression that will get better? Look on it from the point of view of the person wanting to end life, can you honestly say you know how they feel, or what they are going through? It should be (for those that are in a state of compes mentis) a personal decision, one that can be made without being condemned for it, as many suicides are.

No matter how you die, or the reason for it, we still leave behind people that have loved us and cared for us, there will still be elements of blame and guilt.

We do not let animals suffer when they are in pain, so why should we let humans suffer and who determines the level of suffering?

Overall I agree with Euthanasia
Doctors do not practice maintaining life whatever. They do not zealously prolong life which is coming to an end anyway. They can withhold treatments that would prolong life and do. This however cannot be interpreted as euthanasia.

Someone with Alzheimers do not have insight into their illness and any periods of lucidity are fleeting and certainly not long enough to consider they don't want to live.

People who are suicidal do not require enuthanasia - they have their own ways of ending their life.

To my mind, euthanasia means requesting that another person ends the life of the one to be euthanised. This is wrong as it requires someone to carry out the act, making them culpable.

In these times of advanced medical means there is no need for euthanasia. People who are in terrible pain can have effective palliative care. People who are dependent on others for their every need just require compassionate carers who do their job so well that the patient is not made to feel humiliated or a burden.

When people are deprived on oxygen (in the case of those whose conditions mean their lungs will slowly cease to function) the rising levels of carbon dioxide produce a soporific effect, instilling a feeling of calm rather than clawing for breath as portrayed in films!

Can you give me good, valid reasons why someone should be entitled to make the decision that their life should end prematurely - apart from saying they just should?
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randdom
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#38
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#38
(Original post by yawn1)
Can you give me good, valid reasons why someone should be entitled to make the decision that their life should end prematurely - apart from saying they just should?
Because despite what you say we don't have enough medical knowledge to stop all pain. The people with diseases which are associated with Euthanasia such as MS and motor neaurones disease do suffer even if it isn't physical pain. They have to suffer what some people would describe has humilation. Having to be washed and spoon fed would be considered an humiliation. Some people with these diseases just don't want to go on because there minds are fine but they can't control their bodies they are trapped in a shell of a body that they can't control. some of these people want to die with dignity and end their suffering and I ask who are we to stop them?
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Howard
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#39
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#39
(Original post by yawn1)

Someone with Alzheimers do not have insight into their illness and any periods of lucidity are fleeting and certainly not long enough to consider they don't want to live.
I think this is a powerful argument for "living wills", a will or list of wishes that predetermines your wishes in the event of life throwing you a curler.

It could simply state "In the event of me contracting Altzeimers and being in such condition that I am no longer able to recognize my family, think cognizantly, it is my wish that my life be expired by medically induced means" (or words to that effect)

My grandma died at 89. Her last four years went spent dribbling in a chair, unable to control her bowels, and singing about pixies. If that happens to me I would like someone to come find me and shoot me.

She wasn't in pain but I KNOW she'd have been very angry had she realized the condition she was in. A once proud, intelligent, and independent woman being spoonfed Jellie and enjoting regular conversations with her first husband who died 60 years earlier in WWII.
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viviki
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#40
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#40
(Original post by Everdawn)
I think everyone has a right to say when they want to be euthanased. It should be written permission. I think not to would be a horrible thing.
What about people who are in full possession of their mental faculties but cant move and therefore cant write or sign anything.
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