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oblivious
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#27721
Report 14 years ago
#27721
(Original post by serious narb)
The fact that the manager sees something in him is irrelevant, this is the same manager that saw something in Josemi and Nunez. And about him nearly keeping southampton up on his own? He is one of those players you get every year who will have 1 good season then become average or ****. Marcus Stewart, Michael Ricketts, James Beattie and maybe kevin phillips Spring to mind?

and he was hardly alone up front, Sinama played pretty much as a striker and looked much more lively a dangerous.
Beattie has had 2 good seasons actually then went on an eating fest which is yet to finish
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serious narb
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#27722
Report 14 years ago
#27722
(Original post by oblivious)
Beattie has had 2 good seasons actually then went on an eating fest which is yet to finish
he's also injury prone and not commited enough, seems to worried he'll spoil his trendy hair if you ask me
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Rainy
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#27723
Report 14 years ago
#27723
(Original post by serious narb)
The fact that the manager sees something in him is irrelevant, this is the same manager that saw something in Josemi and Nunez. And about him nearly keeping southampton up on his own? He is one of those players you get every year who will have 1 good season then become average or ****. Marcus Stewart, Michael Ricketts, James Beattie and maybe kevin phillips Spring to mind?

and he was hardly alone up front, Sinama played pretty much as a striker and looked much more lively a dangerous.
1. What the manager sees in a player means everything. He's the footballing genius, you are irrelevent.
2. Josemi was bought by Rafa to facilitate his transition to english football. He was starting completely afresh - new club, new country, new language - and needed players he knew. Not only was Josemi dirt cheap, but he also played quite well for the first half of last season before getting maimed.
3. Nunez was forced upon us as Real shafted and Owen left us up the creek. Rafa wanted Juanfran - Madrid had us at the jugular and offered Nunez at most. We had no option but to take it.
4. Are we still talking about Nunez and Josemi, as in the European Champions?
5. For every player who are one-season wonders, there are others who are true class. Why not try watching the player and the team, instead of gorging yourself on hypocritical, back-stabbing papers and 'fans' who pretend to know and understand him?
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Jump
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#27724
Report 14 years ago
#27724
(Original post by oblivious)
big deal! they've got alan smith to replace him *chuckle*
Yeah, I hope we buy a class midfielder like Lee Carsley in January. :rolleyes:
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serious narb
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#27725
Report 14 years ago
#27725
(Original post by Raindance)
1. What the manager sees in a player means everything. He's the footballing genius, you are irrelevent.
2. Josemi was bought by Rafa to facilitate his transition to english football. He was starting completely afresh - new club, new country, new language - and needed players he knew. Not only was Josemi dirt cheap, but he also played quite well for the first half of last season before getting maimed.
3. Nunez was forced upon us as Real shafted and Owen left us up the creek. Rafa wanted Juanfran - Madrid had us at the jugular and offered Nunez at most. We had no option but to take it.
4. Are we still talking about Nunez and Josemi, as in the European Champions?
5. For every player who are one-season wonders, there are others who are true class. Why not try watching the player and the team, instead of gorging yourself on hypocritical, back-stabbing papers and 'fans' who pretend to know and understand him?
oh God, you're really gunna be living off this European Champions thing for years now, Rafa is a fantastic manager, no denying that, also no denying that liverpool were pretty dire in the premier league hence finishing below Everton!

and like I've said, I HAVE seen him play both live and quite regulary on tv, I also dont bother with the ***** that is written in papers, seems you are a bit too close minded to see that people will have a different opinion to you without actually basing it on the media.

and as for your 4th point, the likes of Traore and David May have European Championship medals, does it make them competent? no!

Every manager makes bad signings, fergie did it with djemba djemba, Forlan, Kleberson. Wenger did it with jeffers, R Wright, and in my opinion Rafa has got a 1 season wonder in Peter Crouch. Whether you disagree or not doesnt bother me, but to say i'm basing my opinion on shoddy journalism is just bloody stupid and ignorant.
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Rainy
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#27726
Report 14 years ago
#27726
(Original post by serious narb)
oh God, you're really gunna be living off this European Champions thing for years now, Rafa is a fantastic manager, no denying that, also no denying that liverpool were pretty dire in the premier league hence finishing below Everton!
Yes, obviously! :cool:

It matters a great deal to us - far more than it does to others. There's no denying we were poor in the league, but there's also no denying that Everton had a blinder. Finishing below Everton hurt, but not as much as 32 pts behind the winners. Istanbul washed away the pain and made everything alright again.

and like I've said, I HAVE seen him play both live and quite regulary on tv, I also dont bother with the ***** that is written in papers, seems you are a bit too close minded to see that people will have a different opinion to you without actually basing it on the media.
Ermm... what? So you saw him against Betis? Are you blind? I was too quick to blame it on the press, I must admit, but this whole argument smacks of band-wagon-jumping-on-to.

and as for your 4th point, the likes of Traore and David May have European Championship medals, does it make them competent? no!
Yes, it does. If they weren't competent, they wouldn't make the first team. If the first team weren't competent, the team wouldn't win the Champions League. Your point?

Every manager makes bad signings, fergie did it with djemba djemba, Forlan, Kleberson. Wenger did it with jeffers, R Wright, and in my opinion Rafa has got a 1 season wonder in Peter Crouch. Whether you disagree or not doesnt bother me, but to say i'm basing my opinion on shoddy journalism is just bloody stupid and ignorant.
Basing your opinion on 3 games in his first week back from a medium-serious injury isn't too inspired either. He's getting a chance now, whereas he never got an opportunnity anywhere else. Additionally, the support he gets at Liverpool is far better than anything he fed off from Southampton. Until we see him over a span of the season, his detractors can keep their comments to themselves.
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serious narb
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#27727
Report 14 years ago
#27727
firstly, fair play, milk it for all it's worth just saying it only briefly papers over the cracks of a dissapointing prem season.

alright, i'll see how the rest of the season pans out before continuing, but I know Villa fans and QPR fans who thought he was hopeless as well so it's not as if i'm basing his ability on 3 games. And he was good against Betis admittedly, but 1 good game and a few awful performances do not make him a good signing, but as i say we'll see how he does over the course of the season.

and I really am not jumping on any band wagon, think i've covered that already, but come on please dont say you really think David May is good because he has a champions league medal
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oblivious
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#27728
Report 14 years ago
#27728
(Original post by Jump)
Yeah, I hope we buy a class midfielder like Lee Carsley in January. :rolleyes:
Lee Carsley is class maybe not as a midfielder but as a charity worker.
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lloydy_7
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#27729
Report 14 years ago
#27729
yes djemba djemba, forlan and kleberson were disasters but when did we forget about fergies abismall transfers that actually cost him money. veron!!!! saha!!! and barthez who is also in list off keepers that have been thrown in behind man uniteds shocking defence.

to judge rafa on a player that he lost faith in and sold to celta or one who he has used affectively as cover for finnan is a joke. when man u have a geriatric ******* in charge who would be better served coaching the scotland team. the knighthood is a joke and so is his ageing team basking in there 1999 glory.

ps crouch is a talented footballer with a decent touch who would be better served playing with a partner like cisse from the start of games. a player who can dominate the play upfront and have a good touch unlike heskey(touch of a rapist) has been much missed at anfield.
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oblivious
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#27730
Report 14 years ago
#27730
(Original post by lloydy_7)
yes djemba djemba, forlan and kleberson were disasters but when did we forget about fergies abismall transfers that actually cost him money. veron!!!! saha!!! and barthez who is also in list off keepers that have been thrown in behind man uniteds shocking defence.

to judge rafa on a player that he lost faith in and sold to celta or one who he has used affectively as cover for finnan is a joke. when man u have a geriatric ******* in charge who would be better served coaching the scotland team. the knighthood is a joke and so is his ageing team basking in there 1999 glory.

ps crouch is a talented footballer with a decent touch who would be better served playing with a partner like cisse from the start of games. a player who can dominate the play upfront and have a good touch unlike heskey(touch of a rapist) has been much missed at anfield.
so he doesn't deserve a knighthood for what he has achieved?
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serious narb
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#27731
Report 14 years ago
#27731
(Original post by lloydy_7)
yes djemba djemba, forlan and kleberson were disasters but when did we forget about fergies abismall transfers that actually cost him money. veron!!!! saha!!! and barthez who is also in list off keepers that have been thrown in behind man uniteds shocking defence.

to judge rafa on a player that he lost faith in and sold to celta or one who he has used affectively as cover for finnan is a joke. when man u have a geriatric ******* in charge who would be better served coaching the scotland team. the knighthood is a joke and so is his ageing team basking in there 1999 glory.

ps crouch is a talented footballer with a decent touch who would be better served playing with a partner like cisse from the start of games. a player who can dominate the play upfront and have a good touch unlike heskey(touch of a rapist) has been much missed at anfield.
I pretty much gave up reading that diabolic post when it seemed you were questioning Fergies managerial credentials. As much as I hate him and Manchester United, anyone denying his talent is either being close minded or just bloody stupid.
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Rainy
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#27732
Report 14 years ago
#27732
(Original post by serious narb)
please dont say you really think David May is good because he has a champions league medal
... in bed maybe. But only Fergie would know that. :rolleyes:
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Onearmedbandit
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#27733
Report 14 years ago
#27733
Oh dear Real Madrid. *snigger* :p: Sorry..

Seriously, they didn't deserve to lose but they just couldn't put the ball in the net! 2 sendings off... maybe a tad harsh but both decisions were justified imo.
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kpg
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#27734
Report 14 years ago
#27734
The fact that the manager sees something in him is irrelevant, this is the same manager that saw something in Josemi and Nunez. And about him nearly keeping southampton up on his own? He is one of those players you get every year who will have 1 good season then become average or ****. Marcus Stewart, Michael Ricketts, James Beattie and maybe kevin phillips Spring to mind?
Why is the manager's opinion irrelevent? Are you saying you are a better judge of a player than a manager like Benitez? Josemi and Nunez cost a combined £2m. Nunez and Josemi have also only had bit part parts to play. Josemi was dropped last season before his injury and Nunez only played when we had no other options when half our squad seem to pick up an injury every week, he was also cast off before we made any real attempts to sign a right midfielder which shows how much Rafa rates him. Crouch cost £7m and we fought tooth and nail to sign him because the coach believes he will fit into the system perfectly. When crouch has been fit, he's played. I'd liken Crouch upto Carew into Rafa's valencia. And this is the same coach that was won la liga blah blah blah...Why is his opinion irrelevent?And I don't see how the careers of those players you mentioned have any relevence to Crouch. He had a good season last year, he's made an encouraging start to this one - lets just agree to disagree and see how things go eh before bashing a player who's made 2 league appearances for a new club?

p.s. I'm not sure how you figured Pongolle played as a 2nd striker today. It was Luis Garcia who played in a free role behind Crouch. Sinama played on the right wing with Finnan behind him. Pongolle was later taken off and Garcia shifted right when Sissoko came on to free up Gerrard in a more free role. Which incidentally is how I thought we'd start the game anyway but surprisingly didn't.

oh God, you're really gunna be living off this European Champions thing for years now,
Damn fecking right we are :cool: :cool: :cool:
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serious narb
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#27735
Report 14 years ago
#27735
(Original post by kpg)
Why is the manager's opinion irrelevent? Are you saying you are a better judge of a player than a manager like Benitez? Josemi and Nunez cost a combined £2m. Nunez and Josemi have also only had bit part parts to play. Josemi was dropped last season before his injury and Nunez only played when we had no other options when half our squad seem to pick up an injury every week, he was also cast off before we made any real attempts to sign a right midfielder which shows how much Rafa rates him. Crouch cost £7m and we fought tooth and nail to sign him because the coach believes he will fit into the system perfectly. When crouch has been fit, he's played. I'd liken Crouch upto Carew into Rafa's valencia. And this is the same coach that was won la liga blah blah blah...Why is his opinion irrelevent?And I don't see how the careers of those players you mentioned have any relevence to Crouch. He had a good season last year, he's made an encouraging start to this one - lets just agree to disagree and see how things go eh before bashing a player who's made 2 league appearances for a new club?

p.s. I'm not sure how you figured Pongolle played as a 2nd striker today. It was Luis Garcia who played in a free role behind Crouch. Sinama played on the right wing with Finnan behind him. Pongolle was later taken off and Garcia shifted right when Sissoko came on to free up Gerrard in a more free role. Which incidentally is how I thought we'd start the game anyway but surprisingly didn't.



Damn fecking right we are :cool: :cool: :cool:
Think I covered this ages ago, but anyway maybe irrelevant is the wrong word but you cannot say a player is good just because Benitez says so.

obviously i'm not as good a judge as he is otherwise i'd be the one getting paid thousands and being succesful. but you can't just say a player must be good otherwise the manager wouldnt buy him, as I have already pointed out, even the worlds greatest managers make awful signings.

it seemed to me the way the players shifed positions today it was kind of a not so strict 4-5-1 formation that allowed Sinama and Garcia to almost rotate the role of second striker.
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Rainy
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#27736
Report 14 years ago
#27736
(Original post by serious narb)
Think I covered this ages ago, but anyway maybe irrelevant is the wrong word but you cannot say a player is good just because Benitez says so.

obviously i'm not as good a judge as he is otherwise i'd be the one getting paid thousands and being succesful. but you can't just say a player must be good otherwise the manager wouldnt buy him, as I have already pointed out, even the worlds greatest managers make awful signings.
At the risk of sounding a broken record, it's about the players and not the team. That is, and always has been Benitez's football philosophy. That's why he doesn't cushion players, doesn't give preferential treatment, but also doesn't publically criticise them. You attack as a team, you defend as a team; you win as a team, you lose as a team.

The same applies for Rafa's transfer targets. He doesn't rush out to buy the first player on the market (at an extortionate price) - neither does he splash out millions on a team of Galacticos who have ultimately proved their incompetence. He goes back to the original mainstay of buying players who not only integrate into his tactics, but are also proud to pull on the Red Jersey.It just so happens that his players also go on to be Kop favourites - Xabi, Garcia, Momo etc.

He's not exempt from making bad signings, but I'm confident that he knows what he's doing, and I'm also confident that what he's doing is right.
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serious narb
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#27737
Report 14 years ago
#27737
Think the entire argument has been covered now though surely?

Rafa is a fantastic manager, no denying that, in fact I dont think i've tried to doubt him here, just merely pointing out that he is bound to make an error in judgement with some signings.

Liverpools lack of goals lately might be a worry soon?
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serious narb
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#27738
Report 14 years ago
#27738
and also you can't say that Crouch should be judged after a full season and then go on to call Momo a Kop favourite after a few games
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Barny
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#27739
Report 14 years ago
#27739
Crouch is ****, end of story.
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theaman
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#27740
Report 14 years ago
#27740
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Legend.

I think not.
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