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Kuz
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#941
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#941
(Original post by bono)
The argument about Arsenal being better than Chelsea (or not) is not the same as my initial comment about your sig. you still couldn't even show anything that suggests that Arsenal could even be the best team in Europe. Your excuse about "fatigue" is BS. Every strong european team faces the problem. It's those who handle it better thant succeed, along with playing the better football of course.
ive already explained my self in my first post, it ain't about repeating myself hunny, if you can't be bothered to absorb what i have written previousley and continue to argue on a subject which I am very sorry to say you have lost, then thats your problem not mine. To say i'm tired of your sheer pig headed ignorance would be a dramatic understatement!
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username9816
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#942
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#942
(Original post by piginapoke)
I said individual games are a lottery. A whole season's performance is not a lottery. But, it can't be judged on any statistical equation; it has to be a personal judgment in our case because premier league teams don't play other european teams on a regular basis in a league lasting a season. So, given that I've probably watched about 20000 more games of football than you, I am in a reasonable position to make the judgement about which team is the best in europe this season.
But your judgement in regards to Arsenal's form in the premier league has very little weight when talking about who's the best in Europe. Arsenal are doing well when competing in the premier league. You can't talk about their performance in the prem league then compare this with another team;s performance in another league. The teams played are not the same, hence you can make no direct comparison between results.

Hence, i don't agree with this "but look at their record in the prem league." It's a different playing field.

And even if you were judging on players/etc., how would they compare to many of the big teams from Italy/Spain anyway?
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username9816
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#943
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#943
(Original post by piginapoke)
You're right we can't show it in the only way that would satisfy you: an equation. We have to use our judgement. trouble is, you don't seem to respect our judgement.
But your judgement seems to not have that much bearing because you commented on Arsenal's premierhsip form though - To me that isn't anywhere near good enough to possibly even imply that they are the best in Europe. In addition, their players aren't as good as Madrid's, if you chose to go down that route...
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username9816
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#944
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#944
(Original post by piginapoke)
Not hypocritical at all, you obviously haven't listened at all. For every match there is a hypothetical probability of each team winning (or a draw). So, it can go either way. But for better teams, their probabilities will be higher. Over a season, this evinces itself as more games won.
You said that winning the champion's league is a lottery - this implies that the outcome is purely governed by chance, which it isn't.
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Kuz
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#945
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#945
(Original post by bono)
It's also hypocritical how she says "but it's a lottery, one off matches", but she then says I need to follow football closely to cast an opinion on the possible winners - Which contradicts what she said about it being a lottery. If it's a lottery, then any opinion is valid really as there is no basis to conclude that one opinion has more weight than another.
Firstly don't quote me for something I did not actually quotable say!

The thing about you is that you don't understand the sheer fundamentals of football, and what me and piginapoke were trying to do intially was educate you on the subject. Yet even with your self stated lack of knowledge you still decided to ignorant and entertain the stupid un educated notions you had about football and the particular issue you had about football before we started talking to you!

Therefore to say your being rude, after we are trying our best to help you would be nothing less than the truth
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username9816
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#946
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#946
(Original post by piginapoke)
I cannot beleive you. Fine, dismiss totally my opinion about how good arsenal are compared to european teams as 'having little weight'. I can make that judgement as I've watched **** loads of football and therefore know how good a team is just by watching them! But if you do that, I shall have to dismiss with equal impunity any judgement call you make, on any subject at all, I don't care how much you know about it - as that's exactly what you are doing here.
But I don't understand how saying that Arsenal rag in the league is a good basis to say that they are the best in Europe. This is what I don't understand. This was the basis of your opinion. Arsenal doing superbly in the league. But how can you compare that then with say, Madrid or another contender for the best European team?

BTW: I am listening to what you say, I've been responding to it for the last hour.
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Kuz
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#947
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#947
(Original post by piginapoke)
I cannot beleive you. Fine, dismiss totally my opinion about how good arsenal are compared to european teams as 'having little weight'. I can make that judgement as I've watched **** loads of football and therefore know how good a team is just by watching them! But if you do that, I shall have to dismiss with equal impunity any judgement call you make, on any subject at all, I don't care how much you know about it - as that's exactly what you are doing here.
As the man says a true supporter of footbal can see a good football team, just like a good player almost straight away...You are not a true supporter (as you say yourself) so sorry you cannot comment at all!
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username9816
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#948
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#948
(Original post by piginapoke)
It seems that way to you because frankly you know jack **** about football. So you can say 'arsenals players arent as good as madrids' til you are blue in the face, but I don't agree with that, you have no evidence to back that up other than your own judgement (or somethign you may have read), which I can just dismiss no problem!
I never said that Arsenal had a better/worse squad than Madrid. As we both know, i couldn't really comment as i don't know as much as you two about that.

What I do know however, is that saying Arsenal rag in the league isn't a basis to then conclude that they would be better than the rest - despite the fact that champion's league statistics which explain results between the top european teams who compete against eachother when it counts, suggests that arsenal are inferior by a large margin.
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Kuz
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#949
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#949
(Original post by bono)
But I don't understand how saying that Arsenal rag in the league is a good basis to say that they are the best in Europe. This is what I don't understand. This was the basis of your opinion. Arsenal doing superbly in the league. But how can you compare that then with say, Madrid or another contender for the best European team?

BTW: I am listening to what you say, I've been responding to it for the last hour.
Look Arsenals form hasn't just been good in domestic leagues but also Europe, at times we have been amazing!
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#950
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#950
But logically, one would judge who the best team is by looking at the results between the credible contenders when they compete against eachother?

You choose to not take that great note of this (Champion's league) and instead base your opinion on their drubbings of minnows by 5-0 scorelines. it looks good because the opposition is far inferior.

Naturally one would look at the results between the best teams and then they can see who tends to win.
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Kuz
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#951
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#951
(Original post by bono)
I never said that Arsenal had a better/worse squad than Madrid. As we both know, i couldn't really comment as i don't know as much as you two about that.

What I do know however, is that saying Arsenal rag in the league isn't a basis to then conclude that they would be better than the rest - despite the fact that champion's league statistics which explain results between the top european teams who compete against eachother when it counts, suggests that arsenal are inferior by a large margin.
Just shut up! Your so ignorant! How many blood clat times do u need to be told!

4FS!
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username9816
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#952
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#952
(Original post by piginapoke)
Show us these statistics, make sure they are relevant to the current arsenal team (as least season's team was different and therefore statistics cannot be applied to that team with respect to the current team).

EDIT and you did just say a few posts previously that real obviously have better players than arsenal in your opinion.
1.) Money wise, they cost more, so perhaps. (besides that isn't relevant).

2.) "Show me those statistics" - You are now going to question who has done better in teh champion's league over the last few years between say Real Madrid/AC Milan and Arsenal? i'd think Real would comfortably win that one.
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Kuz
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#953
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#953
I've had enough! I'm off to bed!

Bono you should be officially banned from this thread!
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username9816
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#954
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#954
(Original post by piginapoke)
That's why you should produce the aforementioned statistics showing how the current arsenal team is inferior. If you cannot do so I will consider the matter closed!
I think that if you are asking who has done better in the Champion's league in recent seasons (which you are when asking for these stats, as the best teams in Europe play eachother, and inevitably they end up playing eachother, esp. year after year to, so Arsenal must have met these teams somewhere), then you ahve no basis to conclude Arsenal being the best.
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username9816
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#955
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#955
(Original post by piginapoke)
No money is not relavant.

Game, set and match. As I've said about 24235235 times, the previous years teams were different, and therefore you can't compare them to the present teams.

Oh and just to point out where you did say real had better players than arsenal:
http://www.uk-learning.net/showpost....postcount=1159
How is it game, set and match?

Madrid rag arsenal in champion's league record - fact.

You cannot use Arsenal's league form as any substantial basis to conclude that they are the best in Europe, as they are playing british clubs and of a lower standard; you aren't being consistent. Yet, you ignore the fact that their record against the big teams show that they are more often beaten than victorious. (as in madrid, milan, even friggin chelsea now...)

Simple.
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username9816
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#956
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#956
(Original post by piginapoke)
I am not asking for those stats, as I have said they are not relevant because teams change continually, therefore previous seasons stats cant be applied to the current team. I am not asking who has done better in the CL in previous seasons and never said that, don't put words into my mouth.
What? you said "Show me those stats".

In addition, the big clubs are in the champion's league eyar in, year out. If Arsenal fail to achieve even this, then that puts even more doubt (not that there isn't already enough) into the claim that they are Europe's best.

I think that calling a team "the best in Europe" despite the fact that they haven't even reached the final of a champion's league in recent years is farfetched. Not even a semi-final I believe.
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username9816
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#957
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#957
(Original post by piginapoke)
The simple fact of the matter is that you are misrepresenting my position as you have lost the argument and your ego will not let you admit that. You cannot back up any of your claims with statistics because they are untrue. The only statistics you can supply are completely irrelevant, or just made up...

...On my final note of this thoroughly exasperating encounter, Arsenal's record vs. Chelsea this season: 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat.

Ta ta
My claims are that Madrid and AC have a superior Champion's elague record to Arsenal - how is that untrue? please. :rolleyes:

"Completely irrelevant" - The best teams play eachother eyar after year, the statistics are defintiely relevant. more relevant than your inconsistent comparisons about arsenal's prem performance to that of other european clubs anyway.

"The only statistics you can supply are completely irrelevant, or just made up..." - Wrong again. What have I made up? NOTHING. PLEASE POINT ME TO THESE FALSIFICATIONS, THOUGH I DOUBT YOU CAN.

"Arsenal's record vs. Chelsea this season: 2 wins, 1 draw, 1 defeat." - Yes, that's chelsea. Real and AC and juventus have a superior Champion's league record to both Arsenal and chelsea. THAT IS A STIATISTICAL FACT, WHICH ISN'T "UNTRUE". :rolleyes:
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username9816
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#958
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#958
BTW: you have yet to win any argument.

You claimed that my supposed stats were false - Real and AC and Juve have a better CL record than Arsenal (and chelsea). that is fact. I used no other stats. So your claims that I was "giving untrue facts" is wrong.
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LH
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#959
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#959
(Original post by Dil)
and now languishing in Serie C2 or summat i thought that they recouped a massive fee from the sale of batistuta to roma, yet they still had financial probs!
They're back in B now, Di Livio is still playing for them, I think.
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LH
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#960
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#960
(Original post by TheWolf)
hes actually at Burnley :confused: or is he? it seems that every club he goes to, he gets dumped out after the 'trial period' :eek:
No, he left for China, I don't know if he's still there.
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