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username9816
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#1201
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#1201
(Original post by piginapoke)
Can't you see past your nose end? I suggest watching some football, you might then be able to understand how its possible to judge the ability and potential of a team.

Forgotten about the stats then? :rolleyes:
I still don't see how Arsenal thrashing some minnows can then be used as a basis for putting across the opinion that they are the best in Europe.

As for football: Yes, I watched Arsenal against Chelsea - In the game that mattered, them big game, in the competition that pits europe's best against eachother - They failed. Simple.
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username9816
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#1202
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#1202
(Original post by piginapoke)
For what? His argument is essentially the same as mine he just draws a different conclusion.
How is it the same?
Your argument excused the fact that they screwed up when it mattered and instead concentrated on their PL performance.
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#1203
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#1203
(Original post by piginapoke)
Who's talking about 'thrashing minnows' anyway? No doubt you consider every team they have beaten in the PL to be minnows :rolleyes: You don't see because you don't understand football very well, its all statistics to you, an even they don't back you up!


One game. They have also beaten Chelsea on 2 occasions this season in the league. Read my post on 'cup teams', or do you want to just ignore that and harp on about the same old stuff over and over?
Even if they are better than Chelsea, how can you still proceed to say with confidence that they are the best European team?

How is beating Chelsea twice, good enough to say they are No.1 in Europe? unless you think Chelsea are 2nd best?
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makesomenoise
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#1204
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#1204
(Original post by bono)
Even if they are better than Chelsea, how can you still proceed to say with confidence that they are the best European team?

How is beating Chelsea twice, good enough to say they are No.1 in Europe? unless you think Chelsea are 2nd best?
Because of the word "best", a superlative of "good", which is subjective. He's stating an opinion. He can express an opinion as confidently as he likes, and it will be debated, and he doesn't mind debating it so long as people accept it.

Don't ridicule a reasoned opinion. And he does have plenty of reason for his opinion.
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TheWolf
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#1205
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#1205
(Original post by piginapoke)
Your argument is that because they lost one game to Chelsea they can't be the best in Europe. Chelsea may very well win the CL. Will that make them the best in Europe, you haven't answered that?
i think we agreed on that technically chelsea is , because thats the name of the title, champions of europe?
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username9816
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#1206
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#1206
(Original post by piginapoke)
Your argument is that because they lost one game to Chelsea they can't be the best in Europe. Chelsea may very well win the CL. Will that make them the best in Europe, you haven't answered that?
Nope, because they haven't proved themselves over 2/3 seasons. If they win the CL, I would say they are a contender as they would have beaten many good teams, as well as proving that they have that winning edge.
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username9816
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#1207
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#1207
(Original post by TheWolf)
i think we agreed on that technically chelsea is , because thats the name of the title, champions of europe?
It would be more logical to say that Chelsea are the best in Europe (if they win the CL) than Arsenal, I'll say that.
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makesomenoise
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#1208
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#1208
(Original post by TheWolf)
i think we agreed on that technically chelsea is , because thats the name of the title, champions of europe?
Not yet lad! Again, "best" is subjective. The receipt of a trophy grants a team no more accolade than "champions", and "best" is still subject to debate.
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makesomenoise
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#1209
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#1209
Here's a very modern and relevant example:

Millwall have reached the FA Cup final. They have not played one Premiership team in the Cup to get this far. The stiffest competition they faced (arguably) was Sunderland. So, should they win the FA Cup, can they lay claim to the title of "best team in England"? Since they haven't beaten anyone important (sorry Piggy)?
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makesomenoise
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#1210
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#1210
(Original post by piginapoke)
Whichever team wins they aren't the best team in England
Shut it you
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username9816
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#1211
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#1211
(Original post by piginapoke)
You really are monumentally ignorant, amazing considering you consider yourself to be intelligent! I'd explain this to you, but I already have done several times, it just does not seem to be getting through to you. Your failure to understand what I've been saying is the reason this has dragged on and on, or perhaps you're just choosing to ignore everything in the hope that somehow if you say something enough times it will become true! You're beginning to really annoy me now, I suggest you go an infect some other thread.
OK, I now have the opinion that that the leaders of division one are Europe's best.

I've seen them play many a time, I think they're superb. I reckon they play better than Madrid and co. Who cares about the CL? Stats don't matter and it's only knockout, so it's all one big lottery anyway.

They are Europe's best.

Chelsea's league performance is inferior to Arsenal's yet they can now win the CL and Arsenal are out, so obviously league performance could be bull as well. A few dodgy ref's decisions here and there and voila, a gap in points appears.

They are winning their league, after all.
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makesomenoise
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#1212
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#1212
(Original post by piginapoke)
Well you can hold that opinion perfectly validly, its just that not many people will agree with you.
I think I'll listen to the experts, what do you reckon
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username9816
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#1213
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#1213
(Original post by piginapoke)
Well you can hold that opinion perfectly validly, its just that not many people will agree with you.
The sources used in basing that opinion were not valid though, for it to have justification.
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makesomenoise
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#1214
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#1214
(Original post by piginapoke)
Why not, or just use their opinions to help you come to your own decision.
That's what I meant :rolleyes:
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username9816
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#1215
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#1215
(Original post by piginapoke)
Of course they were valid. Any opinion that doesn't involve untruths or bad logic is valid. Its just an unpopular opinion.
For it to have justification?
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username9816
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#1216
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#1216
(Original post by piginapoke)
Any opinion that is valid has justification and also unjustification, it just depends on an individual's point of view.
What was the reasoning in that post for it to have justification?
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makesomenoise
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#1217
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#1217
(Original post by bono)
What was the reasoning in that post for it to have justification?
That you saw them play and you think they're superb...

Exactly where the hell is this supposed to be going? Because I think you missed the turning over there...
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username9816
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#1218
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#1218
(Original post by XTinaA)
That you saw them play and you think they're superb...

Exactly where the hell is this supposed to be going? Because I think you missed the turning over there...
I thought they were superb, but where's the reasoning in that to say they are the best? Have I watched every other team in Europe play? No. Good performance doesn't equal the best in Europe.
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makesomenoise
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#1219
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#1219
(Original post by bono)
I thought they were superb, but where's the reasoning in that to say they are the best? Have I watched every other team in Europe play? No. Good performance doesn't equal the best in Europe.
Well then you're chatting wet as usual. It's about reasoned opinions...
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username9816
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#1220
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#1220
(Original post by piginapoke)
I'm not sure you're grasping the fundamental nature of opinions here. Do you want to start a new thread about it? :rolleyes:
For an argument to have justification, as my previous post specifically said, it must be reasoned.

The post about the division 1 side being the best was not reasoned in any fashion to conclude that they were the best.

there's a difference between any opinion and an opinion that has clear justification to it.
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