False rape accusation - how much prison should she get?

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MostUncivilised
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http://news.stv.tv/scotland/271195-k...o-men-of-rape/

An adult toys saleswoman had sex with two men and then claimed she had been raped, a court has heard.

Kimberley Wheelhouse was sentenced to 90 hours of unpaid community work as an alternative to imprisonment after pleading guilty to making the false claims.
90 hours community service? That's a ludicrously light sentence; women who make false accusations of rape should face a sentence similar to that of rape.

By making that false accusation, you are raping someone's reputation, putting an innocent person at risk of years in prison. It's just as damaging
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elpistolero7
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
http://news.stv.tv/scotland/271195-k...o-men-of-rape/



90 hours community service? That's a ludicrously light sentence; women who make false accusations of rape should face a sentence similar to that of rape.

By making that false accusation, you are raping someone's reputation, putting an innocent person at risk of years in prison. It's just as damaging
That's mind boggling. She should be in prison ffs. 90 hours community service for something like that is a joke.

Justice system in this country is ridiculous tbh.
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sr90
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Should get exactly the same sentence as the poor man would have got if he was found guilty.

Women who make false accusations are in the vast minority, despite what the media will have you believe. However they are just as bad as the rapists themselves.
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Chicken.M.
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ye should be equal sentence to rape. It's like framing someone for murder. Perverting the course of justice etc.
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Miel Purple
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That's a disgrace.

Minimum 2 years.
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Messalina
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Why when it's a rape case do false accusations suddenly become necessary to have the same sentence as the crime they are accusing somebody of? You don't hear people shouting that somebody should get a life sentence if they falsely accuse somebody of being a murderer. I find it quite odd. False accusations are abhorrent but as far as I know false accusations of any crime don't carry a particularly high sentence. Why should this be different?

Also I don't buy into the "ruining an innocent man's life" thing, when somebody is found guilty of false accusations then the accused is obviously innocent within a court of law. Going through a court case can be traumatic but I doubt it constitutes a ruined life by any means.
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awe
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About two handfuls? :P


I don't think anyone will disagree that this is despicable, that false criers of 'rape' are horrific and abusing their own society and rights... it gets picked up by the media and puts real victims at risk and through further suffering and it sullies the name of innocent men. It also drags feminism waaaay down, obviously.
However, it is not on par with an actual rape in this particular example, in my opinion. I do think that her mental health is a factor that should be considered, as with any criminal. This is not the same as those that condemn men through months of court cases, who are malicious and wholeheartedly in the accusation.

I think punishment should be monetary and very large, and alongside many hours of strict community service. In an ideal world it would go the victims and to rape survivor charities? Ideal worlds... I don't think she should go to prison, because it's not that the criminal must be kept off the streets 'or else' - as it would with someone who has committed assault or murder or theft, someone who needs to be removed from their stimuli. 'Our money' etc taxpayer argument blah, shouldn't go to housing and feeding her when a punishment could be completed by a severe fine and strict hours.
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by Messalina)
Why when it's a rape case do false accusations suddenly become necessary to have the same sentence as the crime they are accusing somebody of?
I didn't say that. I'm merely saying that a false accusation of rape and a rape are roughly equal.

You don't hear people shouting that somebody should get a life sentence if they falsely accuse somebody of being a murderer
Falsely accusing someone of murder should probably carry the same sentence as a rape. The distinction is that a man falsely accused of rape is particularly liable to being imprisoned, unlike falsely accusing someone of murder where the police probably won't act without corroborating evidence.

Also I don't buy into the "ruining an innocent man's life" thing, when somebody is found guilty of false accusations then the accused is obviously innocent within a court of law. Going through a court case can be traumatic but I doubt it constitutes a ruined life by any means
So you're saying being falsely imprisoned for years doesn't ruin your life?
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Gjaykay
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Crap like this is an insult to actual rape victims.
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by awe)
I don't think she should go to prison, because it's not that the criminal must be kept off the streets 'or else' - as it would with someone who has committed assault or murder or theft.
Protecting the community is not the only purpose of the justice system, deterring similar offences by harsh punishment is a legitimate consideration
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abdulahi
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i watched this youtuube clip a while ago https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVW3FwJ7vTc

this woman ruined his life by accusing him of raping her, 2 decades later she admits she lied about it and probably nothing happened to her.
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Messalina
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
I didn't say that. I'm merely saying that a false accusation of rape and a rape are roughly equal.
In your eyes. In my eyes, a false accusation is nowhere near as bad as being raped. Words =/= vicious and violent non consensual sex. They are not equal. They are decidedly unequal.



Falsely accusing someone of murder should probably carry the same sentence as a rape. The distinction is that a man falsely accused of rape is particularly liable to being imprisoned, unlike falsely accusing someone of murder where the police probably won't act without corroborating evidence.
Stats? I don't think other than a few choice examples, the only one of which I can think of is in the USA (Brian Banks) many men have been falsely accused and then sent to prison. Please provide some evidence to your claim that they are "particularly liable to being imprisoned"

So you're saying being falsely imprisoned for years doesn't ruin your life?
I'm saying that it's far far less common than rape, which in my eyes is far more violent, traumatising and distressing to go through. Over 5000 men are found guilty and sent to prison for rape in this country every year. How many women are found guilty of false accusations per year? Does it even measure up as such a grievous threat to innocent men as your OP makes it out to be?
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awe
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
Protecting the community is not the only purpose of the justice system, deterring similar offences by harsh punishment is a legitimate consideration
Yes - hence me saying that punishment could be in the form of a severe monetary fine. I just don't see the only punishment, or the most appropriate one for her, being prison time. I do agree she requires stronger punishment.
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Messalina
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(Original post by Algorithm69)
All you need to do, my dear, is look up any newspaper articles dealing with false rape accusations where they interview the victim. One theme always comes up: the man's life was ruined. A rape allegation is akin to being labelled a paedophile. It never goes away. Men lose their wives, their friends, and their jobs as a result. Or you could just research what Craig Charles went through.

Wilful ignorance. Purposefully dumb.
Clearly you are physically incapable of being civil. Since I know what you're like, I can't really be bothered to continue our discussion. I'll keep posting in this thread, so if you care for my opinion (which clearly your bigoted mind has already decided is too stupid to engage with) then you can read my posts to other users. Bye bye now!
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by Messalina)
In your eyes. In my eyes, a false accusation is nowhere near as bad as being raped. Words =/= vicious and violent non consensual sex. They are not equal. They are decidedly unequal.
Utterly nonsensical. Murdering someone, and unjustly ordering their execution (if you are, say, a despot) are the same. Though I suppose you're arguing that because the despot spoke the words, rather than wielded the axe, it's actually not that bad?

I'm saying that it's far far less common than rape
And therefore it's not as serious? There's no logical connection between how common it is and how it should be punished.

which in my eyes is far more violent, traumatising and distressing to go through
Being falsely imprisoned, and attacked in prison, is not "violent, traumatising and distressing" to go through? It's clear to me that your ideology blinds you to basic human compassion.
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The_Duck
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Wait. If I accuse someone of stabbing me and it turns out to be someone else, I don't go to jail.
Making false accusations should carry no charge. We should just have confidentiality for the accused.
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samba
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I'm unsure about this one.

I don't think the jail term should necessarily be high. It is after all just a malicious accusation.

It does however impact the accused lost term and substantially.

Therefore a civil case with substantial power to strip her of everything she owns [including future earnings] should be brought.
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DanB1991
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(Original post by Messalina)
Why when it's a rape case do false accusations suddenly become necessary to have the same sentence as the crime they are accusing somebody of? You don't hear people shouting that somebody should get a life sentence if they falsely accuse somebody of being a murderer. I find it quite odd. False accusations are abhorrent but as far as I know false accusations of any crime don't carry a particularly high sentence. Why should this be different?

Also I don't buy into the "ruining an innocent man's life" thing, when somebody is found guilty of false accusations then the accused is obviously innocent within a court of law. Going through a court case can be traumatic but I doubt it constitutes a ruined life by any means.
They should spend the same amount of time seeing those men had the "potential" of spending that jail time if they had been found guilty.

Then add the fact they will be labelled as rapist's for life by the "no smoke without fire" crowd.
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tengentoppa
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(Original post by Messalina)
Also I don't buy into the "ruining an innocent man's life" thing, when somebody is found guilty of false accusations then the accused is obviously innocent within a court of law. Going through a court case can be traumatic but I doubt it constitutes a ruined life by any means.
Can you imagine having everyone you know thinking you're a rapist? The abuse you would get would be horrific. He might lose his job, his friends etc. And then there's the possibility he'd wrongly be found guilty. After all, it's her word versus his. The trauma would be dreadful even if he was acquitted, and getting a life sentence would certainly ruin his life. I think it's pretty disgusting that you're trivialising something so serious.
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Messalina
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
Utterly nonsensical. Murdering someone, and unjustly ordering their execution (if you are, say, a despot) are the same. Though I suppose you're arguing that because the despot spoke the words, rather than wielded the axe, it's actually not that bad?
And therefore it's not as serious? There's no logical connection between how common it is and how it should be punished.
Being falsely imprisoned, and attacked in prison, is not "violent, traumatising and distressing" to go through? It's clear to me that your ideology blinds you to basic human compassion.
But you're in the minority here. The fact of the matter is, the UK courts do not consider false accusations of rape to be anywhere near as bad as rape itself, and that is reflected in the punishment. Every now and again the DM or some other paper will report one of these false accusation stories, and a load of boys on TSR will complain about the evil women and how dare they make up such evil lies and they should rot in prison forever.

Your point of being falsely imprisoned and attacked in prison is generalising, how many actual cases has this been the case in? To be imprisoned for rape, the jury has to decide that the defendant is guilty beyond reasonable doubt of committing rape. That fact alone means that there will be cases where rapists walk free, yet it doesn't mean there'll be loads of blokes in prison for rape who didn't commit it - there has to be proof beyond reasonable doubt that it happened. For that reason, I would think that the vast majority of false accusation cases (of which I doubt there are very many in the first place) would simply amount to her word against his - certainly not enough to warrant a guilty verdict. The worst that would happen to our hypothetical innocent man in this situation is that he would have to go through a court case. Not exactly life ruining.

You say that I'm blinded to human compassion, but ironically I think actually you are. As a man, you're vastly more sympathetic to other men who may be falsely imprisoned, but noncommital on the subject of rape itself. Perhaps you're scared of being falsely accused someday, and I get it, that would suck. But the very real threat of rape which many women face in their lives is a more pressing concern to me than the threat of false accusations to a minority of men. Sorry bout it.
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