UK going to have to pay some of Ukraine's gas bill! Watch

Poll: Should UK pay Ukraine's gas bill
Yes we should pay (6)
24%
No we shouldn't pay (19)
76%
Ace123
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#1
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#1
The Ukraine owes Russia billions in unpaid gas bills and the plan will be for the IMF and the EU to pay for it! Given the UK's role in the IMF this means the UK will be forced to pay hundreds of millions to pay for Ukraine's gas

The plan being formulated by EU will involve the IMF, EU and World Bank all paying for oustanding gas bills which will be part funded by the UK

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...0MP00J20140411

So should we pay for Ukraine's gas when millions of Brits can't heat their homes!
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Ace123)
The Ukraine owes Russia billions in unpaid gas bills and the plan will be for the IMF and the EU to pay for it! Given the UK's role in the IMF this means the UK will be forced to pay hundreds of millions to pay for Ukraine's gas

The plan being formulated by EU will involve the IMF, EU and World Bank all paying for oustanding gas bills which will be part funded by the UK

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/0...0MP00J20140411

So should we pay for Ukraine's gas when millions of Brits can't heat their homes!
To the two bits in bold: evidence, please?

I'm not really that bothered. The commissioner will need support from the European Parliament and the Council of the European Union before any of this can start. If they actually get support from both bodies then, well, tough luck? That's representative democracy for you.
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Baron of Sealand
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May as well invade then!
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gladders
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#4
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If the alternative is having Ukraine dominated by Russia, then we should pay them. Russia must be contained.
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james22
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#5
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The alternative could well mean problems with the supply to Europe, so yes we should.
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the mezzil
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#6
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#6
Pay or what? What is Russia realistically going to do?

Cut gas supply? And... just switch providers. We should just sit on the border and fling poo at them. I really want to piss them off.

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Aj12
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(Original post by gladders)
If the alternative is having Ukraine dominated by Russia, then we should pay them. Russia must be contained.
This.

OP you seem to think we can just hide from the outside world and nothing other countries do will ever have an effect on us.
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MatureStudent36
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#8
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Are people aware that IMF loans are just that. loans. They get paid back.
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Pulse.
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#9
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(Original post by MatureStudent36)
Are people aware that IMF loans are just that. loans. They get paid back.
*Loans with crazy conditions and pre requisites.

Got to feel for the Ukrainians once this loan is finalised, wonder how the economy will cope.

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Rakas21
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(Original post by Pulse.)
*Loans with crazy conditions and pre requisites.

Got to feel for the Ukrainians once this loan is finalised, wonder how the economy will cope.

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That may be true but as loans they are regarded as unfunded liabilities meaning that OP's point (though false) about heating our homes is irrelevant since it will not affect the overall government budget.

Regarding your point, that's certainly true. That being said, Greece and Ireland are now back on the bond market so there's every chance that we will be paid with interest to boot. Greece and Portugal are the two concerns though.
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Rakas21
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#11
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(Original post by gladders)
If the alternative is having Ukraine dominated by Russia, then we should pay them. Russia must be contained.
If i could bang home any point it would be this.

As much as people may dislike the EU as an institution it is in our interests for Ukraine to not be at behest of Russia. Not only is Ukraine a potential consumer market but politically and strategically Russia is a potential threat to our interests. They have shown time and again that they do not have the same respect for values that the Anglosphere and Europe has, they are not one of us.
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billydisco
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
To the two bits in bold: evidence, please?
Why do people like you ask for evidence for the most obvious of statements? Is it because you're a leftie, don't like what Ace has to say and you just pull out the "where's the evidence?" card when you dont have a logical point to argue it?

What evidence do you need for millions of British people cant afford their gas bills- oh beyond the fact Labour have pledged to cap the price of global energy market for 2 years!?
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billydisco
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(Original post by Rakas21)
If i could bang home any point it would be this.

As much as people may dislike the EU as an institution it is in our interests for Ukraine to not be at behest of Russia. Not only is Ukraine a potential consumer market but politically and strategically Russia is a potential threat to our interests. They have shown time and again that they do not have the same respect for values that the Anglosphere and Europe has, they are not one of us.
So why dont we just economically smash their economy back to the stone-age?
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Rakas21
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#14
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(Original post by billydisco)
So why dont we just economically smash their economy back to the stone-age?
I would strongly support that and indeed i suspect that we'll ramp up sanctions with the US at some point. Unfortunately we've got a good decade before Germany and Poland will be free enough of Russian gas to join the fight.

I would note that capital flight alone from recent events is suspected to have put Russia back into negative growth in Q1.
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billydisco
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#15
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(Original post by Rakas21)
I would strongly support that and indeed i suspect that we'll ramp up sanctions with the US at some point. Unfortunately we've got a good decade before Germany and Poland will be free enough of Russian gas to join the fight.

I would note that capital flight alone from recent events is suspected to have put Russia back into negative growth in Q1.
The Russian economy was weak before all this started- they are VERY vulnerable. Plus its summer-time so Germany and Poland shouldnt need too much gas right now anyway.

They need to think long-term- make Russia weak.
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Rakas21
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#16
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(Original post by billydisco)
The Russian economy was weak before all this started- they are VERY vulnerable. Plus its summer-time so Germany and Poland shouldnt need too much gas right now anyway.

They need to think long-term- make Russia weak.
One good thing to come from all of this at least is that the us and Poland will frack as much as we can.
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billydisco
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#17
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(Original post by Rakas21)
One good thing to come from all of this at least is that the us and Poland will frack as much as we can.
Can't say i'm overly keen on fracking- would rather stick wind turbines off every single part of the coast which isn't a ferry route and cut immigration/demand for electricity.
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StretfordEnd
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#18
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(Original post by billydisco)
Why do people like you ask for evidence for the most obvious of statements? Is it because you're a leftie, don't like what Ace has to say and you just pull out the "where's the evidence?" card when you dont have a logical point to argue it?

What evidence do you need for millions of British people cant afford their gas bills- oh beyond the fact Labour have pledged to cap the price of global energy market for 2 years!?
Not sure if you're fishing or just daft. You bashing someone for being a leftie in regards to a point about people not affording their heating...as if this is something a leftie isn't arsed about?

The two crucial factors in the 'heating' debate - greater welfare provision (particularly for the elderly) and interference in the capitalist free market to influence energy prices - are absolute cornerstones of a left wing ideology.

Back on topic, your view is childish and simplistic. The Nigel Farage school of policy. It's not like having a fiver in your pocket and saying 'Ah no, if I give this to the homeless feller I can't afford lunch'

Surprisingly, the operation of the world's 6th largest economy is slightly more complex than that, and foreign aid (or loan as they would be in this case) on the one hand do not mean money is being taken out of the pot with 'reserved for winter fuel allowance' on the side of it.

Ridiculous assessment.
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billydisco
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#19
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#19
(Original post by StretfordEnd)
Not sure if you're fishing or just daft. You bashing someone for being a leftie in regards to a point about people not affording their heating...as if this is something a leftie isn't arsed about?

The two crucial factors in the 'heating' debate - greater welfare provision (particularly for the elderly) and interference in the capitalist free market to influence energy prices - are absolute cornerstones of a left wing ideology.

Back on topic, your view is childish and simplistic. The Nigel Farage school of policy. It's not like having a fiver in your pocket and saying 'Ah no, if I give this to the homeless feller I can't afford lunch'

Surprisingly, the operation of the world's 6th largest economy is slightly more complex than that, and foreign aid (or loan as they would be in this case) on the one hand do not mean money is being taken out of the pot with 'reserved for winter fuel allowance' on the side of it.

Ridiculous assessment.
Last winter were many people in the UK struggling to pay their gas bills? Yes or No please.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by billydisco)
Why do people like you ask for evidence for the most obvious of statements? Is it because you're a leftie, don't like what Ace has to say and you just pull out the "where's the evidence?" card when you dont have a logical point to argue it?

What evidence do you need for millions of British people cant afford their gas bills- oh beyond the fact Labour have pledged to cap the price of global energy market for 2 years!?
Ace made these claims and therefore has the duty of backing them up with evidence. I feel that it is necessary for them to do this as these claims are important in this discussion; if they are false, say, then their worries fall apart. Something being obvious does not make it true.
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