Why do we continue to help the Iraqi's become a civilised country? Watch

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username9816
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#21
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#21
(Original post by me!)
If the coallition (sp) wanted the oil, they could take it because "might is right", but they haven't and I don't believe they will. If they want the oil then why do they buy it when they could just take it? The soldiers out there in Iraq are not doing it for oil, because believe it or not some people are actually trying to make the world a better place, a more peaceful place.

(BTW: I don't agree with "might is right" but it's reality, if someone's bigger than you they can beat you up, take what they want as is evident from thousands of years of history, take Ireland for example)
They don't want to make it look completely blatant that they invaded Iraq for Oil though, hence the little things here and there to persuade the world that they do care.
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me!
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#22
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#22
(Original post by bono)
They don't want to make it look completely blatant that they invaded Iraq for Oil though, hence the little things here and there to persuade the world that they do care.
But if they wanted it they could just take it! They pay for oil. Plus the amount of money that the spent on the War in Iraq and are still spending, they could have just bought the oil. It's about more than oil it's about making people free...

So the soldiers who have lost their lives and the families, who lost sons, daughters, mothers, fathers did it all just for oil. Some people do actually care...

So would Iraq be better if Saddam was back in power? Think of the thousands, even millions of people who lived in fear because of him, who died because of him...
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username9816
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#23
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#23
(Original post by me!)
But if they wanted it they could just take it! They pay for oil. Plus the amount of money that the spent on the War in Iraq and are still spending, they could have just bought the oil. It's about more than oil it's about making people free...

So the soldiers who have lost their lives and the families, who lost sons, daughters, mothers, fathers did it all just for oil. Some people do actually care...

So would Iraq be better if Saddam was back in power? Think of the thousands, even millions of people who lived in fear because of him, who died because of him...
The soldiers had no choice in the matter.
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Jamie
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Jonatan)
Ok, lets put it this way. How many bomb atacks have you seen? In theory, how many peopel are needed to perform such an atack in a country where weapons and explosives flow pretty freely on the street? Remember that even surgeons had access to AK-47s to protect the hospitals when the looting was at its worst. Now, say some 300 people are atacking the US led Coalition with bombs and suecide atacks. That is more than enough to cause the sort of chaos you see down in Iraq now. However, Iraqs total population is several million. Shall you really withdraw help and support from several million people because you can find a few hundred fanatic lunitics in the country? What if the EU judged britain on the basis of the criminals that do opperate within the borders, and ignored the rest of the population?

I hope we dont have to see more nonsense in this thread now, cus really, the original message is just ignorant. Judging an entire population based on the actions of a small minority is nothing but stupid.
I think when push comes to shove you ahve alot of anger by 2 main groups, not one
The sunnis have fallen from power and are pissed. More than that they are afraid, if they dont regain power soon they may well face a big backlash.
The Shia are dived. The main problem is the **** Moqtada Sadr. His father it seems was a good and holy man, but Islam being the ******** it is (im sorry to all those who are muslim, but this apsect of it IS retarded) believes that the son will be as good and holy as the father.
Which he isn't
Instead this dickweed of a cleric who cowered like a 7 year old girl during saddams reign is now using his cleric status to manipulate hundreds upon thousands of iraqis into thinking it is gods will to help HIM to power. Worse, he, just like Bin Laden before him is trying to make it into a 'western world vs Islam fight'
I'm afraid when push comes to shove, Christianity in it's current form cannot hope to prevail against Islam.
Not even the romans could withstand the barbarian hordes....
J
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Apollo
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#25
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#25
(Original post by TheWolf)
lets blame the americans
everyone usually does. I am sick of the amount of US bashing that goes here.
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....
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#26
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#26
(Original post by PadFoot90)
everyone usually does. I am sick of the amount of US bashing that goes here.
Profuse US bashing goes on in every country in the world that isn't the US sorry!
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Apollo
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#27
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(Original post by Gimp)
Profuse US bashing goes on in every country in the world that isn't the US sorry!
and every thread on here related to anything about america.
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....
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#28
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#28
(Original post by PadFoot90)
and every thread on here related to anything about america.
They're just jealous; don't worry.
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me!
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#29
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#29
I'd love to go to the US one day
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Mxx
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#30
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Before the war I didn't believe you could impose a western ideology on a Middle Eastern country that’s based on a Middle Eastern ideology and has been for centuries. I still believe that. It’s clear the Iraqi people are kind of fickle, they want to be lead by someone and while there is not clear one as of yet because of democracy, its understandable that people will start to listen to extreme fundamentalists/clerics, whoever… that do have an objective/new ideology. It just so happens to opposed to one that the so called liberators hold and now there’s a new uprising against them.

That’s maybe a narrow minded view as I doubt most Iraqis agree with the uprising against the allied countries. Didn’t this all start when the Shias who hold a large population in the south rebelled against the fact they were offered 2 seats in the new government?

I’m still against the war because of my belief even before we mention the WMD, intelligence and so on. But now it’s happened if troops pull out, then they might as well have kept Saddam in power; at least then it was organised barbarity!
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Apollo
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#31
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#31
(Original post by Gimp)
They're just jealous; don't worry.
maybe but it gets very annoying :mad:
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llama boy
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#32
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(Original post by byb3)
Surely for this investment to pay off Iraq has to become a stable country ran by a stable and trusting government. In that case this is a very long term investment.
Yes, this is true, Though some of the reconstruction contracts are obviously short to medium term.

During the past year in Iraq, I can't see how much we have really gained from having our armed forces there. Apart from the securing of future oil supplies, most of the major reconstruction contracts have been 'awarded' to US firms. As far as I know only one major engineering contract has been awarded to a British firm.
Yeah...the UK hasn't got a great deal of it. But it seems likely that Blair ensured enough guarantees out of Bush to make it worthwhile to the UK (well, British companies at least) to be there.

I think this can be directed more towards the US than the UK although we do play a part in this matter. The messages which filter through the media from Islamic extremists appear to be citing hatred more towards the USA than the coalition forces as a whole. So you agree that Iraq is not prepared to be ran by a democratic government?
I don't see it happening, no.

Well, it depends what you mean, I guess. The image the Americans have for Iraqi democracy is built to ensure that there is no way the economic structure, military bases, etc can be challenged by a democratically elected govt. Hence, the image they appear to have of "democracy" is of a puppet govt backed up by huge US military force. Might that work? In a very messy way, possibly.

As for a proper democracy, you could say it was irrelevant as they aren't going to allow that to happen, but to get that working would be a mighty achievement. With the US there or not, there'd still be the oil to fight over as well as the historic tribal differences.

Saddam needed a 1m strong army and a hugely brutal totalitarian attitude to keep the country in line. How the US expected to do it with 100,000 I have no idea.
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llama boy
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#33
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#33
(Original post by PadFoot90)
everyone usually does. I am sick of the amount of US bashing that goes here.
Who would you "blame" for the situation in Iraq?
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nayeem18
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#34
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I would blame Saddam Hussain and the weak foreign policy of the states at once . I saw someone typing like a graduate of Oxford university that the cultures / religion of Iraq does not talk about democracy . I suggest that those people and their supporters should educate themselves about making comments . Even an illeterate urchin could throw a comment at a nun for not wearing revealing clothes at the street because the kid doesn't know much . Why preassume that the Iraqis , or the once most civilised in the world , are having problems in their religion when right in the U.S fathers are abusing underage girls and in the U.K aged men are murdering young girls , young girls getting missing from the streets and found dead somewhere else . Doesn't it sound like that the culture and religion of the U.K has got some **** mixed well in it ? If I were the commentators , I would make calculated comments on the basis of supported facts .
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ThePants999
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#35
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Personally I'd have thought the obvious answer would be that we're helping to reconstruct the country because we helped to destroy it. Fair's fair, you know.
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Barny
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#36
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#36
(Original post by me!)
But if they wanted it they could just take it! They pay for oil. Plus the amount of money that the spent on the War in Iraq and are still spending, they could have just bought the oil. It's about more than oil it's about making people free...

So the soldiers who have lost their lives and the families, who lost sons, daughters, mothers, fathers did it all just for oil. Some people do actually care...

So would Iraq be better if Saddam was back in power? Think of the thousands, even millions of people who lived in fear because of him, who died because of him...
Youre missing the point, the soldiers are there to do their job, irrespective of the reasons of the country telling them to fight..
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sloaney87
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#37
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#37
If you bomb the country to bits, the least they can do is spend some money to reconstruct it, its the duty of more powerful countries to help other countries out, even if it is for the oil now.


and you cant judge a whole nation by a minority of suicide bombers who dont even represent the ideals of their beliefs, i.e islam.
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[email protected]
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#38
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Under Saddam: Prosepering middle eastern country with beautiful ancient cities, history and prosperity.

Under the US: Empoverished poor people fighting each other for a scrap of bread.

Most of the people fail to see the point because they've never been outside their town-in-the-middle-of-nowhere, except for holidays. The Americans want to know how to appease the Shiads (however you spell that) and everyone else... How about a strong ruler, who slams his fist down unto a table and says 'peace between the different peoples of Iraq.' Saddam may have been a prat, but:

He had NO WEAPONS of mass desctruction.
His Country was PROSPEROUS AND SUCCESSFUL
EVERYONE in Iraq was HAPPY to live with the others.

The strongly Islamic nation needs a strong leader. Have you ever seen an Islamic nation with democracy? I haven't. They are born into the strongly muslim world. They prefer there to be someone at the top, whom they all love: a leader. Most of us in Britain may not understand, but we have just wrecked a country and there is no progress in making the people there happy.

Talking about the point of the people not being helpful, imagine the following:

A bunch of Iraqis first bomb your village for a week without stopping. In the process they kill half the populace and destroy all the means of transportation. They then arrive in tanks and occupy the village, making their temporary base in your pub and not allowing anyone out of their houses after 9:00 p.m. without being shot. They then come around the houses and if they don't like your wife's face they take her to prison and rape her. Does that sound good to you? NO??? Why should it be alright for them? I'm sure half the people in England would do their utmost to kill as many of the invaders as possible if that were the case and patriotism is not born out of nothing. How many people went roung blowing themselves up during Saddam's times? I'm pretty sure there were quite a few less.

If anyone wants to neg rep me, then please do give an explanation. I feel very strongly about destroying other countries with the sole purpose of winning the elections in your own country and cannot see how the people in the UK fail to see this and get rid of Blair.
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pal_sch
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#39
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[QUOTE=Yannis]Under Saddam: Prosepering middle eastern country with beautiful ancient cities, history and prosperity.

Under the US: Empoverished poor people fighting each other for a scrap of bread.[QUOTE]But Sadam empoveraged his people by locking the countries resources into military and his own wealth. Only a select few were rich or comfortable. The beautiful aincient cities were being altered to suit Sadams whims, the history being rewriten or erased due to religious fanatisim. The americans are being combated by the last vestages of his regime. The war is still happening, just in a different format. Its more like the Northen Island problems a few years back, but on a truly huge scale. The suffering of the people can be traced back to sadam becoming their leader. However, the americans are not entirely innocent, and have to be held responcible, and so have to clean up the mess they have made of an already dammaged country.
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Bigcnee
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#40
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#40
You invaded the country.
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