How do you prove date rape? Watch

jamieTT
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If there's no sign of violence, no spiking and the girl was simply too drunk. Can't go with her word since that's not enough in court. Feminists claim there aren't enough rape convictions and that's because of ''rape culture''. But most rape is dome by men the victim knows, doesn't leave any traces that prove it was not consensual and many times these are circumstantial (for ex. rough sex, popular with many, can look like rape in a medical examination). It's almost impossible to prove on he said/she said basis .
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Mad Vlad
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(Original post by jamieTT)
If there's no sign of violence, no spiking and the girl was simply too drunk. Can't go with her word since that's not enough in court. Feminists claim there aren't enough rape convictions and that's because of ''rape culture''. But most rape is dome by men the victim knows, doesn't leave any traces that prove it was not consensual and many times these are circumstantial (for ex. rough sex, popular with many, can look like rape in a medical examination). It's almost impossible to prove on he said/she said basis .
With great difficulty.
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Kvothe the Arcane
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(Original post by jamieTT)
If there's no sign of violence, no spiking and the girl was simply too drunk. Can't go with her word since that's not enough in court. Feminists claim there aren't enough rape convictions and that's because of ''rape culture''. But most rape is dome by men the victim knows, doesn't leave any traces that prove it was not consensual and many times these are circumstantial (for ex. rough sex, popular with many, can look like rape in a medical examination). It's almost impossible to prove on he said/she said basis .
Harsh interrogation of the perp?
I mean they're usually regular people who probably can't lie that well. :dontknow:
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redferry
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(Original post by jamieTT)
If there's no sign of violence, no spiking and the girl was simply too drunk. Can't go with her word since that's not enough in court. Feminists claim there aren't enough rape convictions and that's because of ''rape culture''. But most rape is dome by men the victim knows, doesn't leave any traces that prove it was not consensual and many times these are circumstantial (for ex. rough sex, popular with many, can look like rape in a medical examination). It's almost impossible to prove on he said/she said basis .
You can't, that's the problem.

The fact is in court you have to believe they did it 'beyond all reasonable doubt' and even with DNA it's always going to boil down to her word against his.

Literally nothing legally to stop men doing it because as long as they don't leave physical damage they will always get away with it.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by redferry)
You can't, that's the problem.

The fact is in court you have to believe they did it 'beyond all reasonable doubt' and even with DNA it's always going to boil down to her word against his.

Literally nothing legally to stop men doing it because as long as they don't leave physical damage they will always get away with it.
Totally. Unless you go Mike Tyson on her on top of the rape nothing can be proven. And this is how most rape happens, therefore why so few convictions. Not because of ''rape culture'' or some kind of unspoken patriarchal rule.

We need to teach girls not to go home with a guy they barely know unless they want sex. We don't need to teach men not to rape. Men don't rape, psychos do. Do we teach men not to be pedos and serial killers? No, we teach kids to be careful with strangers.
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redferry
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(Original post by jamieTT)
Totally. Unless you go Mike Tyson on her on top of the rape nothing can be proven. And this is how most rape happens, therefore why so few convictions. Not because of ''rape culture'' or some kind of unspoken patriarchal rule.

We need to teach girls not to go home with a guy they barely know unless they want sex. We don't need to teach men not to rape. Men don't rape, psychos do. Do we teach men not to be pedos and serial killers? No, we teach kids to be careful with strangers.
Its hard because I know someone who was at a mans house for a totally different reason and was raped and again the same story. I don't really know what can be done about it, there's so many cases where multiple people came forwards and yo me it feels pretty tragic they got off as clearly something has gone one.

Normal average guys rape. They do. I went back to guys house wanting sex, then started feeling really Ill and decided I wanted to sleep. At the time he was a friend and I trusted him - wole up to him trying to have sex with me!!! Its unavoidable unless you teach women never to trust men ever. Which seems very unhealthy to me, and there would be an outcry.

I think the answer really is just to teach these guys to appreciate the full consequence of what they are doing and see girls as people just like them rather than this 'other'. Empathy. I mean of course you will still get the 'pshychos' doing it, but not the 'lads'.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by redferry)
Its hard because I know someone who was at a mans house for a totally different reason and was raped and again the same story. I don't really know what can be done about it, there's so many cases where multiple people came forwards and yo me it feels pretty tragic they got off as clearly something has gone one.

Normal average guys rape. They do. I went back to guys house wanting sex, then started feeling really Ill and decided I wanted to sleep. At the time he was a friend and I trusted him - wole up to him trying to have sex with me!!! Its unavoidable unless you teach women never to trust men ever. Which seems very unhealthy to me, and there would be an outcry.

I think the answer really is just to teach these guys to appreciate the full consequence of what they are doing and see girls as people just like them rather than this 'other'. Empathy. I mean of course you will still get the 'pshychos' doing it, but not the 'lads'.
Just because it happened to you once doesn't make it a general rule.Your ''friend'' was not normal, just very good at pretending, like many psychopaths are. This is why the vast majority of serial killers are hard to catch, because they are the most normal, average people you could think of. Many times it takes years, some have never been caught. They blend in perfectly. Normal guys don't try to **** girls while they're sleeping.

Did he stop when you told him too? Maybe he thought it was still ''on'' if you weren't feeling sick anymore . Sort of cashing his rain check in his sick little mind.
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redferry
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(Original post by jamieTT)
Just because it happened to you once doesn't make it a general rule.Your ''friend'' was not normal, just very good at pretending, like many psychopaths are. This is why the vast majority of serial killers are hard to catch, because they are the most normal, average people you could think of. Many times it takes years, some have never been caught. They blend in perfectly. Normal guys don't try to **** girls while they're sleeping.

Did he stop when you told him too? Maybe he thought it was still ''on'' if you weren't feeling sick anymore . Sort of cashing his rain check in his sick little mind.
Well I imagine most girls my age will know people who have had similar incidents, that sort of thing is pretty normalised at university. I know someone who genuinely raped my bfs ex. So that's nice. My other friends boyfriend (they are still together don't ask me why) had anal sex with her when she was paraletic (we had had to carry her home).

I was unconscious as far as he knew so yeah...not good. Spoke to him after and he fully would have gone ahead with it he didn't really seem to realise how not OK that was.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by redferry)
Well I imagine most girls my age will know people who have had similar incidents, that sort of thing is pretty normalised at university. I know someone who genuinely raped my bfs ex. So that's nice. My other friends boyfriend (they are still together don't ask me why) had anal sex with her when she was paraletic (we had had to carry her home).

I was unconscious as far as he knew so yeah...not good. Spoke to him after and he fully would have gone ahead with it he didn't really seem to realise how not OK that was.
And everyone I know has been the victim of a crime at some point, does this mean the average guy is a thief or a robber? No, it's a tiny percentage of guys who keep doing it to everyone else.
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redferry
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(Original post by jamieTT)
And everyone I know has been the victim of a crime at some point, does this mean the average guy is a thief or a robber? No, it's a tiny percentage of guys who keep doing it to everyone else.
Oh I never said it wasn't a tiny percentage, I totally agree! I don't agree that they are necessarily a psycho though, and feel with more education for both boys and girls surrounding consent at least some of these types of rape could be prevented.
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Meyrin
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(Original post by jamieTT)
We don't need to teach men not to rape. Men don't rape, psychos do.
Or, you know, we could do that. As in:

- Teach men the importance of clearly expressed consent.
- And that in any situation in which a woman is clearly unwilling or not in her right mind to do give consent, sex should be off limits.
- Reduce the attitude of male entitlement to sex.
- Enough of this "boys will be boys" rubbish.
- Illustrate that coercing a girl to have sex with you and refusing to take no for an answer is categorically wrong and only adds to the problem.
- Stop making light of rape, because as much as some people wish to disagree, joking about it only makes it more acceptable.
- Stop with this ridiculous "only psychos do that!" nonsense - studies have been done into the subject and show a surprising number will admit to taking advantage of a girl as long as it isn't called "rape."

There's a mistaken belief that rape is something that only happens in dark back alleys with complete strangers, which is what people immediately think of when they hear "rape culture" and so go on to dismiss it. But that isn't the case.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by Meyrin)
Or, you know, we could do that. As in:

- Teach men the importance of clearly expressed consent.
- And that in any situation in which a woman is clearly unwilling or not in her right mind to do give consent, sex should be off limits.
- Reduce the attitude of male entitlement to sex.
- Enough of this "boys will be boys" rubbish.
- Illustrate that coercing a girl to have sex with you and refusing to take no for an answer is categorically wrong and only adds to the problem.
- Stop making light of rape, because as much as some people wish to disagree, joking about it only makes it more acceptable.
- Stop with this ridiculous "only psychos do that!" nonsense - studies have been done into the subject and show a surprising number will admit to taking advantage of a girl as long as it isn't called "rape."

There's a mistaken belief that rape is something that only happens in dark back alleys with complete strangers, which is what people immediately think of when they hear "rape culture" and so go on to dismiss it. But that isn't the case.
OK. What should we teach girls?
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Zarek
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In the absence of signs of force being used or witnesses near the scene, I guess it could be difficult. Wonder does it give extra proof if there have be previous allegations against the person. Inclined to think that someone who would do this could be a repeat offender. Credibility in court must count for something but I guess some corroborating evidence is required.
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james22
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You can't. People often go on about the low conviction rate for rape without actually offering any solutions.
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Meyrin
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(Original post by jamieTT)
OK. What should we teach girls?
Nothing.

They've already had it drilled into their heads quite enough thus far that they'll suffer at least partial blame for any kind of assault that could occur, especially if they broke one of the seventy cardinal rules girls are taught day in and day out to follow to prevent being attacked.
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XxelliexX
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(Original post by jamieTT)
Totally. Unless you go Mike Tyson on her on top of the rape nothing can be proven. And this is how most rape happens, therefore why so few convictions. Not because of ''rape culture'' or some kind of unspoken patriarchal rule.

We need to teach girls not to go home with a guy they barely know unless they want sex. We don't need to teach men not to rape. Men don't rape, psychos do. Do we teach men not to be pedos and serial killers? No, we teach kids to be careful with strangers.
What an utterly ridiculous statement! Are the two mutually exclusive?!
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jamieTT
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(Original post by Meyrin)
Nothing.

They've already had it drilled into their heads quite enough thus far that they'll suffer at least partial blame for any kind of assault that could occur, especially if they broke one of the seventy cardinal rules girls are taught day in and day out to follow to prevent being attacked.
That's what I thought.
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jamieTT
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(Original post by XxelliexX)
What an utterly ridiculous statement! Are the two mutually exclusive?!
Not if you consider most men to be psychos.
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Inazuma
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(Original post by jamieTT)
Totally. Unless you go Mike Tyson on her on top of the rape nothing can be proven. And this is how most rape happens, therefore why so few convictions. Not because of ''rape culture'' or some kind of unspoken patriarchal rule.

We need to teach girls not to go home with a guy they barely know unless they want sex. We don't need to teach men not to rape. Men don't rape, psychos do. Do we teach men not to be pedos and serial killers? No, we teach kids to be careful with strangers.
If you claim all rapists are psychopaths, I think you need to look up the meaning of psychopath dear because that's not true at all.
People here have given you examples, it is very commonplace and it is not just done by 'psychos' because the proportion of actual psychopaths is miniscule compared to the number of rapists.
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SMEGGGY
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Yes date rape occurs sadly. But for example a girl likes a guy they go home together and have consentual sex although both under the influence, girl next day wakes up regrets it for whatever reason. She then to keep face amongst friends etc etc claims it was rape? That is it for the guy his life, name is ruined all because of the girl. How is this a fair system

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