LAW- Queen Mary or Warwick Watch

saraufialhau
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I've got an offer for law at Queen Mary and another from Warwick to study European Law. Which one should i choose as a first choice? Help!
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SmaugTheTerrible
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Warwick probably has a better reputation but I doubt going to Queen Mary will put you at any major disadvantage. It's more about how well you do at University than the actual University name to an extent.

Queen Mary is in London along with the other top law schools (UCL, KSL, SOAS, LSE) so you can share resources etc. Plus London is where all the opportunities are.
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saraufialhau
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(Original post by adamsmithqm)
Warwick
Why? Are you studying there?
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SmaugTheTerrible
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(Original post by saraufialhau)
Why? Are you studying there?
Warwick probably has a better reputation but I doubt going to Queen Mary will put you at any major disadvantage. It's more about how well you do at University than the actual University name to an extent.

Queen Mary is in London along with the other top law schools (UCL, KSL, SOAS, LSE) so you can share resources etc. Plus London is where all the opportunities are.
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Britishstudent
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Having gone to Queen Mary myself, I can say the law school is absolutely fantastic.

If you are doing European Law, we have an ELSA society, as well as a Law Society, Bar Society, Pro Bono Society + Women Working in Law Society.

You have the option to graduate with a University of London degree or a Queen Mary degree. The University of London is formed of other top universities like LSE, UCL, King's etc...

There are about 3 or 4 opportunities a week to network at Queen Mary as there are always solicitors and barristers visiting. We have also consistently have opportunities to visit London law firms and chambers. I'm not saying you can't do that from Warwick by any means, but it would be a lot more convenient for you if you were in London as networking is a big part of studying law.

A massive advantage is that you can become a legal advisor at the university's Legal Advice Centre and give legal advice to the public, which is a massive boost for your career opportunities.

Warwick does have an excellent reputation, possibly better than QMUL, but I believe QMUL is actually ranked higher in the law school tables than Warwick.

I'm extremely biased as I know very little about Warwick, so do get a second opinion, but if you wanted to hear from someone who is currently a law student at QM I can say it is fantastic!

I would watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eyExpIUQA

and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rndtURpflKM
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saraufialhau
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(Original post by adamsmithqm)
Warwick probably has a better reputation but I doubt going to Queen Mary will put you at any major disadvantage. It's more about how well you do at University than the actual University name to an extent.

Queen Mary is in London along with the other top law schools (UCL, KSL, SOAS, LSE) so you can share resources etc. Plus London is where all the opportunities are.
Thank you for your message. I think that the big difference between the 2 universities is the location because both seem to have the same level
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saraufialhau
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(Original post by Britishstudent)
Having gone to Queen Mary myself, I can say the law school is absolutely fantastic.

If you are doing European Law, we have an ELSA society, as well as a Law Society, Bar Society, Pro Bono Society + Women Working in Law Society.

You have the option to graduate with a University of London degree or a Queen Mary degree. The University of London is formed of other top universities like LSE, UCL, King's etc...

There are about 3 or 4 opportunities a week to network at Queen Mary as there are always solicitors and barristers visiting. We have also consistently have opportunities to visit London law firms and chambers. I'm not saying you can't do that from Warwick by any means, but it would be a lot more convenient for you if you were in London as networking is a big part of studying law.

A massive advantage is that you can become a legal advisor at the university's Legal Advice Centre and give legal advice to the public, which is a massive boost for your career opportunities.

Warwick does have an excellent reputation, possibly better than QMUL, but I believe QMUL is actually ranked higher in the law school tables than Warwick.

I'm extremely biased as I know very little about Warwick, so do get a second opinion, but if you wanted to hear from someone who is currently a law student at QM I can say it is fantastic!

I would watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eyExpIUQA

and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rndtURpflKM
Thank you for your message I've received an email from Queen Mary telling me that i can't have the university of London degree because from september 2014 they want to make their own award (anyway could you please tell me what is the difference between a Queen Mary award a University of London award? ) ...But I guess you're right, London has it all! At the same time, Warwick is more known outside UK and later I would like to work in Italy or France so yes that's a point too.

Regarding the difference between both degrees- Law (3 years) and European Law (4 years)- How is this perceived in terms of reputation etc?
Another question, is it possible for me to do an erasmus at Queen Mary even though i only have a 3 years course offer?

Thank you for helping me
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hp112
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Being close to "magic circle firms`' is not a reason to pick a university. Certainly, there are lots of graduates from LSE, UCL and King's at MC firms; but there are far fewer from QMU. There are plenty of UCL, LSE and King's graduates at MC firms because of the reputation of these institutions - this has little to do with the fact that the students are located in London. I would probably pick Warwick - although both are very good. Personally, I've met far more Warwick graduates at MC firms that QMU grads.

(Original post by 1drowssap)
Firstly, I would pick Queen Mary because its in London, where all the magic circle firms are. Secondly, because I'm gonna go there too(although not going to study law)!
Well, a QMUL degree would be better than a generic UOL one, as the UOL degrees are commonly associated with external degrees(i.e. students can get it via distance learning, and has a system like Open University).

Reputation wise, its hard to say. Beside Oxbridge, the rest are not really too prominent outside the UK. From observation, most people here would study a normal 3 year degree(with the aim of staying in the UK to work), but in your context, a 4 year European Law degree would sound more suitable(you should check with the uni if a european law degree gives any advantage). Regarding the European exchange programme, you should check with the QMUL, to see the requirements for the programme(need to have good grades).

Here's the link for the Erasmus [email protected]: http://www.qmul.ac.uk/undergraduate/erasmus/index.html
Contact info for the programme:
Law l Sheila Shirley l 020 7882 3934 l Laws G15 l [email protected]
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i-love-coffee
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(Original post by Britishstudent)
Having gone to Queen Mary myself, I can say the law school is absolutely fantastic.

If you are doing European Law, we have an ELSA society, as well as a Law Society, Bar Society, Pro Bono Society + Women Working in Law Society.

You have the option to graduate with a University of London degree or a Queen Mary degree. The University of London is formed of other top universities like LSE, UCL, King's etc...

There are about 3 or 4 opportunities a week to network at Queen Mary as there are always solicitors and barristers visiting. We have also consistently have opportunities to visit London law firms and chambers. I'm not saying you can't do that from Warwick by any means, but it would be a lot more convenient for you if you were in London as networking is a big part of studying law.

A massive advantage is that you can become a legal advisor at the university's Legal Advice Centre and give legal advice to the public, which is a massive boost for your career opportunities.

Warwick does have an excellent reputation, possibly better than QMUL, but I believe QMUL is actually ranked higher in the law school tables than Warwick.

I'm extremely biased as I know very little about Warwick, so do get a second opinion, but if you wanted to hear from someone who is currently a law student at QM I can say it is fantastic!

I would watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76eyExpIUQA

and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rndtURpflKM
Do you know how easy it is to switch courses at QM? I have an offer for Politics but was thinking about trying to switch to Law in Sept
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1drowssap
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(Original post by hp112)
Being close to "magic circle firms`' is not a reason to pick a university. Certainly, there are lots of graduates from LSE, UCL and King's at MC firms; but there are far fewer from QMU. There are plenty of UCL, LSE and King's graduates at MC firms because of the reputation of these institutions - this has little to do with the fact that the students are located in London. I would probably pick Warwick - although both are very good. Personally, I've met far more Warwick graduates at MC firms that QMU grads.
Your reason isn't very valid either. You have given a piece of anecdotal evidence in support of your position. Unless you know the opinion of every employer in MC firms, you can't draw the conclusion that Warwick has a better reputation than QM. Reputation is hard to measure, as it is not quantitative either.

Honestly, for law, its hard to differentiate between Warwick and QM, so essentially we can argue until the cows come home. My evidence is anecdotal too, but I've heard QM's law department is quite good. By having a relatively good department, it would be likely that the students are of good quality too. It also hosts networking events with law firms, which gives the student ample opportunity to mix around with future employers. Since these firms are based in London, it would be easier for OP to do internships at these firms, and that is why being in London is a plus point.

To me, when one mentions Warwick, I immediately associate it with their Maths department, which is quite strong. Law isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Again, not saying that Warwick's law department isn't good, but that hasn't come across very strongly when speaking to others. Let's say for the sake of argument that Warwick does have a better reputation, internship opportunities are less accessible to the OP, as he has to travel all the way to London to do these internships, which would waste a lot of time travelling, and may end up doing more harm than good for the OP.
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Cutmeloose
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(Original post by 1drowssap)
Your reason isn't very valid either. You have given a piece of anecdotal evidence in support of your position. Unless you know the opinion of every employer in MC firms, you can't draw the conclusion that Warwick has a better reputation than QM. Reputation is hard to measure, as it is not quantitative either.

Honestly, for law, its hard to differentiate between Warwick and QM, so essentially we can argue until the cows come home. My evidence is anecdotal too, but I've heard QM's law department is quite good. By having a relatively good department, it would be likely that the students are of good quality too. It also hosts networking events with law firms, which gives the student ample opportunity to mix around with future employers. Since these firms are based in London, it would be easier for OP to do internships at these firms, and that is why being in London is a plus point.

To me, when one mentions Warwick, I immediately associate it with their Maths department, which is quite strong. Law isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Again, not saying that Warwick's law department isn't good, but that hasn't come across very strongly when speaking to others. Let's say for the sake of argument that Warwick does have a better reputation, internship opportunities are less accessible to the OP, as he has to travel all the way to London to do these internships, which would waste a lot of time travelling, and may end up doing more harm than good for the OP.
The law course at Warwick might not be any stronger than QMUL, however I'd argue that there is a substantial difference in regards to recruitment for firms of that nature.

Plenty of firms who won't make the short trip to QMUL for a campus presentation but will brave the journey to the Midlands and beyond.

Your last point is ridiculous, I have friends at Warwick and large amounts are from London and wouldn't this line of reasoning apply to Oxbridge also?
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Cutmeloose
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(Original post by 1drowssap)
Again, if you have the numbers to prove it, good for you.


Honestly, this isn't anything 'solid' unless you have evidence to back it up, i.e.show the numbers that more firms go to Warwick than to QM.


Well, they must feel quite annoyed to travel back and forth don't they?

The OP doesn't have Oxbridge to choose from, so it doesn't make any sense to bring it up. Of course, if the poster where to choose between Oxbridge and LSE, I would say choose LSE, because of the exact same reason.

However, it is between Warwick and QM, which are difficult to differentiate. I'm saying that even if Warwick is more prestigious, is it worth the several hours of travelling to get access to the best opportunities, that QM could possibly also have access too?

You can only counter my argument if
1. You can show that an overwhelming majority of MC firms don't go to QM but go to Warwick instead.
2. QM has such a bad reputation for law that they avoid QM students or Warwick has such a good reputation for law that they would pick a Warwick student any day.

If the OP lives in London, and has a choice between Warwick and QMUL, I better have a damn good reason why I pick Warwick over QMUL. To me, the difference is negligible, I would want to pick QMUL out of convenience. Even, if he/she doesn't live in London, close proximity to magic circle firms is a plus point.

If you are convinced Warwick is better, good for you. Don't need to convince me, you need to convince the OP. You need to show the OP that there is solid evidence that Warwick has far more opportunities than QMUL. Until then, my stance remains that the difference between these two unis is that they are negligible.

Speaking as a person NOT doing law, that is my opinion. If you do have inside info that is helpful, please do share it.
The actual magic circle firms tend to visit a host of universities which may be down to maintaining some form of veil but here's a group of top city firms.

http://www.jonesdaycareers.com/offic...&subsection=11 [University events]

https://www.whitecasetrainee.com/events

http://www.mayerbrowngraduates.com/h...ply/key-dates/

http://graduates.hoganlovells.com/ap...campus_alumni/

http://www.davispolk.com/careers/lon...uiting-events/

http://www.herbertsmithfreehills.com...t-us-on-campus (Look at who they give presentations to)

http://www.bornglobal.uk.com/Downloads/Key-Dates.pdf

Weil Gotshal (premier US firm attended only Oxbridge, LSE, UCL, KCL, Warwick and Nottingham last cycle and has campus ambassadors for only those universities.

http://www.traverssmith.com/en/caree...presentations/ only went to Travers Smith only goes to Oxbridge, Durham, Exeter and Warwick last cycle.

Would have probably been able to find even more firms but many are in the process of updating the data for 2014.

1) has been answered to some extent
2) This is another ridiculous proposition because even if the university in question was Oxford, this wouldn't be the case, yet there is still a marked difference between Oxford and QMUL. It comes down to a lot more than just your university.

That's life. Every summer, plenty of students come to London to do summer internships in a variety of industries. Not living in London during term time is not an issue, yes it may be slightly irritating getting here for interviews but that's about it. The OP might be keen to branch out and experience independence, as I assume that they would live at home if at QMUL.

I don't need to convince the OP. You made a fairly inaccurate statement, so I decided to step in. The fact that you don't have legal ties is quite obvious because being in close proximity to city firms is of limited importance.

I personally think it says a lot that some firms are willing to go to Durham and St Andrews yet won't make a 30/45 minute journey to QMUL.
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hp112
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In the absence of surveys of the entire MC, of-course most 'advice' will be anecdotal - that does not necessarily mean it is entirely invalid.

I'm not being critical of QMU - and well done on getting a place at QMU. However, with all due respect, I think (I might) have a little more experience in this area than you. I spoke (entirely) from my own experience. I'm in my final year and I was lucky enough to get two MC TC offers. I also completed vac schemes at a 3rd MC firm and a US firm. I met few QMU graduates, maybe one or two at each MC firm? although none at the US firm. Hence, the reason which I personally recommended Warwick. I believe it has a better overall reputation amongst recruiters than QMU. As, I said both are good schools.

However, I think it's a little premature of you to suggest that QMU is advantageous for the MC, supposedly due to its location, when as I understand it you haven't even started University yet? Good luck to the OP in whichever choice he makes. The MC aren't the only good firms and I'm sure that QMU and Warwick graduates - both - get good grad jobs in law.

(Original post by 1drowssap)
Your reason isn't very valid either. You have given a piece of anecdotal evidence in support of your position. Unless you know the opinion of every employer in MC firms, you can't draw the conclusion that Warwick has a better reputation than QM. Reputation is hard to measure, as it is not quantitative either.

Honestly, for law, its hard to differentiate between Warwick and QM, so essentially we can argue until the cows come home. My evidence is anecdotal too, but I've heard QM's law department is quite good. By having a relatively good department, it would be likely that the students are of good quality too. It also hosts networking events with law firms, which gives the student ample opportunity to mix around with future employers. Since these firms are based in London, it would be easier for OP to do internships at these firms, and that is why being in London is a plus point.

To me, when one mentions Warwick, I immediately associate it with their Maths department, which is quite strong. Law isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Again, not saying that Warwick's law department isn't good, but that hasn't come across very strongly when speaking to others. Let's say for the sake of argument that Warwick does have a better reputation, internship opportunities are less accessible to the OP, as he has to travel all the way to London to do these internships, which would waste a lot of time travelling, and may end up doing more harm than good for the OP.
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infairverona
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Going to a uni in London has very little, if ANYTHING, to do with your chances of getting a TC at an MC firm. All unis have law fairs where firms attend to sell themselves to the students. Warwick has an excellent reputation, not only for law but in general, which IMO is superior to that of QM. QM's main positive is its location, and even then that doesn't really give it an edge.

Worth pointing out that QM, whilst being a UoL uni, is one of the weaker London unis...if your choice was UCL or something for example it'd be different. But IMO Warwick has the edge here. Also not biased, don't go to either of these unis.
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Le Nombre
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OK, I think there a few key points missing here in amongst the prestige and how well perceived your degree will be at the MC arguments.

These are 2 different courses. One involves a year abroad and studying another legal system whilst at the uni, that's a pretty major thing, it will significantly affect your experience of uni, and I say that having done it and knowing a few people who did the same course at Warwick (through both my year abroad and my LPC). If you wan to study the other legal system and are enthusiastic about the year abroad (which will be tough if you do just pure ERASMUS) then this should be simply a choice of Warwick. If you'd prefer the option to study slightly more English law, as you don't have time taken by French Legal Language and French Law, and aren't fussed about the year abroad then go to QMUL. If you have Qs about this sort of course just ask

Secondly, Warwick teaches differently, it does Law in a social context or something like that, QMUL is more traditional black letter law, consider which method you think you would prefer, because when you're spending 40-50 hours a week doing it in Final year that's going to significantly impact your life.

Also, think abut how your life will be at uni. Are there any extra curriculars you're particularly interested in? Do both those offer them and if so is one clearly much stronger at it? Would you prefer to live in London or Leamington? How would you like living on campus in first year? Would you prefer feeling part of a very strong university community (running into people you know all the time at Tesco, in bars in clubs, in the street, round campus etc.) or more integrated into the wider community? Your experience of uni at either will be very different to the other, people will love both, but it is highly likely you will prefer one over the other when you think through these. It's 3 years of your life, make sure you're spending it somewhere you enjoy being, and that certainly won't hurt your academic performance and willingness to get involved in uni life, societies, clubs etc.

Finally, here are some stats on the performance of each uni with regard to legal careers of various kinds, both of these feature some old info but they're not so old as to be uselss.

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=1961426

http://d1d1tdqerevjwu.cloudfront.net...university.pdf
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