Imperial College vs. University of Melbourne? Watch

soveryconfused
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I realise that Imperial is better ranked than Melbourne for Chem. Eng. but, as an international student, I've heard that the job opportunities for us are diminishing. Melbourne graduates, on the other hand, are practically guaranteed jobs.

Can you get offered scholarships for your second year of college at Imperial if you perform well in your first year? When would it be possible to start working part-time to pay off student loans?
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returnmigrant
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Australia has a more buoyant economy - at the moment. And that is for Australian residents - not anyone needing a work permit.

League Tables and employment stats are a daft way to choose a Uni course - 'employed' can mean shelf stacking in Tescos and all league tables count things like 'how many journal articles a leading Professor published last 2 years ago' - which doesn't tell you if you will enjoy doing the course does it?

If you are an international student you wont qualify for Student Finance from the UK.

Undergraduate scholarships are practically unknown in the UK. And certainly not if you've already started your course.
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soveryconfused
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
Australia has a more buoyant economy - at the moment. And that is for Australian residents - not anyone needing a work permit.

League Tables and employment stats are a daft way to choose a Uni course - 'employed' can mean shelf stacking in Tescos and all league tables count things like 'how many journal articles a leading Professor published last 2 years ago' - which doesn't tell you if you will enjoy doing the course does it?

If you are an international student you wont qualify for Student Finance from the UK.

Undergraduate scholarships are practically unknown in the UK. And certainly not if you've already started your course.
Thanks for the reply!

I'm not too well informed on these kinds of things, but will the economy in the UK settle down? I'm planning on getting a job in engineering but don't plan on staying in the UK for too long.

I realise that getting a degree by no means guarantees a job, but wouldn't a degree from Imperial be better than one from Melbourne considering the workload and prestige the university has?

Are you sure? I was under the impression that, if you did well, you had a shot at a scholarship for the next year.
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returnmigrant
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You need to think beyond the idea that a particular degree from a particular Uni some how 'guarantees' you a job - anywhere. You don't come out of Uni with a tattoo on your head and an automatic job contract. The job market is very competitive and what all employers look for is a good class degree (First or 2i) and that you have done more at Uni than just your degree - relevant vacation work, internships, relevant/interesting voluntary work etc etc. An employer will only offer you an interview if you have this profile and you can write a good application, you'll only get the job if you interview well. These aspects have NOTHING to do with what Uni you went to - its up to you. School leavers cling to this idea that a certain Uni will be like a 'magic card' that will get them the best job ever - when actually it depends on personal intangibles like personality, attitude and ambition.

So, stop fussing about 'which Uni' will look the nicest on my CV' and thing 'bigger'.
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SKK94
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Coincidentally, I too had to chose between offers from Imperial College and the University of Melbourne ( though it was for Biomed eng, not Chem eng)
It was a long decision process, but I eventually chose Melbourne because I preferred it's the course structure, and because it was convenient in some others ways personally.

And it's true about the 'which uni' thing. Even here (I'm currently studying first year at UoM) they advise us that graduating from UoM will only affect job oppurtunity to a certain extent, and that it is not a guarantee. They've stressed about supplementing CV's with more than academics.
Currently, the University is working on implementing a more industry-involved course for engineering that can provide more in-field opportunities for students.
UoM also has scholarships for international students - though somewhat specific to the type of high school qualifications you have (i.e GCE Alevels, IB, VCE etc)
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sellerofdreams
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As an international student myself who's had cousins study in Australia and in the UK, I'll say that it's not easy to get a work visa after university anywhere. The UK has really cut down on the number of work visas it gives to international students. If you're going to the UK because you think you can get a job after you graduate, you might be in for a disappointment. Australia is sligghtly better in this regard, because there are more job opportunities, especially for engineering, but I know a lot of people who went to top aussie unis including the uni of Melbourne and had to come back after that because they couldn't get jobs. Governments everywhere are really cracking down:it was far far easier to stay in the UK after uni ten years ago.

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GandalfWhite
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But an engineering degree from Imperial is like one from MIT .... top in UK and top in USA.
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returnmigrant
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There is still no such thing as a guaranteed job.
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GandalfWhite
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
There is still no such thing as a guaranteed job.
Absolutely true.

2 graduates going for a job a top engineering consultancy .... how do you think an employer chooses ?
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returnmigrant
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First of all there won't be 2 people applying.

The first sift will be on the selection criteria - the bullet points set out as essential for the job - which will include 'degree in whatever subject at 2i or above' . The sift will continue, checking each criteria. This will give a score. Those below a particular score will be dropped. Where there are still a high number of applicants, other factors may be taken into account - age, work experience, language ability, Masters degree, references etc. The number will be gradually reduced to a realistic short-list and eventually 'interview' or not.

School leavers and many graduates are convinced that 'which University' is the first and only sift. It isn't. No modern company runs its HR Dept like this. Those assumptions belong in another era. Job applications are not foraged through in a smokey room lined with Directors portraits around the wall. It's done in a fluoro lit office by an HR person with a degree and a brain, who uses an agreed set of criteria not 'must have gone to St Whiffleguts Prep School' and got a First at the same Uni as I did.
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Crumpet1
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Agree with everything Return Migrant says, plus once you get a foot in the door and reach the assessment centre/interview, it almost wholly comes down to your performance at that. At our recent training contract interviews, at the end of the assessment day we had a round table debate to create the job offer list, and 'university attended' did not even rate a mention. It was all about what the candidates had done during the assessment process (written and personal interaction).
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GandalfWhite
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
First of all there won't be 2 people applying.

The first sift will be on the selection criteria - the bullet points set out as essential for the job - which will include 'degree in whatever subject at 2i or above' . The sift will continue, checking each criteria. This will give a score. Those below a particular score will be dropped. Where there are still a high number of applicants, other factors may be taken into account - age, work experience, language ability, Masters degree, references etc. The number will be gradually reduced to a realistic short-list and eventually 'interview' or not.

School leavers and many graduates are convinced that 'which University' is the first and only sift. It isn't. No modern company runs its HR Dept like this. Those assumptions belong in another era. Job applications are not foraged through in a smokey room lined with Directors portraits around the wall. It's done in a fluoro lit office by an HR person with a degree and a brain, who uses an agreed set of criteria not 'must have gone to St Whiffleguts Prep School' and got a First at the same Uni as I did.
Agree for general positions.

For highly specialised or scientific / medical positions, the quality of education / training is indeed important and helps identity people with better expertise assuming of course relevant experience.
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returnmigrant
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PS. If you mention 'Imperial' in Australia (the context of the OP's original question) no-one will immediately prostrate themselves on the ground before you. Most won't have a clue what you are talking about, and even those within Engineering wouldn't be that impressed merely by the name.
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GandalfWhite
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(Original post by returnmigrant)
PS. If you mention 'Imperial' in Australia (the context of the OP's original question) no-one will immediately prostrate themselves on the ground before you. Most won't have a clue what you are talking about, and even those within Engineering wouldn't be that impressed merely by the name.
Disagree. And nothing to do with the Empire and all that. Top engineering cnsultancies operate internationally with expertise available within the group located in different locations. It is a global village to most people.
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Smack
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(Original post by GandalfWhite)
Absolutely true.

2 graduates going for a job a top engineering consultancy .... how do you think an employer chooses ?
I work for an engineering consultancy and from what I have seen the selection process is no different to any other type of firm.
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GandalfWhite
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I am not putting down any universities or any graduates, just acknowledging the fact that top companies do recognise certain top universities. Why? One reason is that these universities have performed a screening role through their selection of students in the first place. In general, students from MIT Imperial Melbourne Harvard HKU NUS are known to be smart and self driven, high achievers. In US the top graduates even get signing on bonuses. And their salaries are higher as top companies try to attract such top talent. The most important resource in a company is its human resources. Those who do not recognise or are unable to attract the best talents may not be as competitive. I can go on and on but it may appear negative to some even though I am just trying to point out some positives about top universities. If you have a choice of a top university and a good university choose the top. Iron sharpens iron and you become better by studying and competing with better cohort. All engineering courses meet the minimum curriculum required for accreditation but better students allow some curriculum to be pushed further otherwise it will be a walk in the park for those students. That's also why certain universities have a much higher % of 2:1 and above. In fact these universities probably have double the average % in 1st. Like it or not a degree from a top university is a signal to employers that this person should be able to learn faster, be more productive, is more self motivated and may be contribute more to the future of the company. All said it is still just an indicator. If performance does not meet expectations others will be promoted ahead of such people as actual performance become the next better indicator of future success. Good luck to everyone whichever university you graduate from. Hard work and attitude plays a more important part after graduation and one can catch up and go ahead of even the smart ones as the game and goal posts change at work and in life.
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returnmigrant
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You've missed the point. It might be that grads from particular Uni are concentrated within certain companies or work areas. But this isn't because they were selected by those companies etc because they went to X University.

Its more likely because they are bright people who, in order to get into those Unis, have high A level grades and the confidence from always having been high achievers, that they are more likely to come from professional families with an increased understanding of how to tackle the job market, that they were given more targeted careers help/advice than those at other Unis and overall they are more likely to see themselves as 'entitled' to apply to those 'top' companies. They are therefore more likely to succeed in a competitive job race.

Why are there higher rates of those from private schools at certain Unis? Not because those Unis target those applicants, but because a vast range of circumstances/issues make it more likely that those sort of applicants will apply to those sort of Unis, will write more confident applications, and its more likely that they will choose those Unis as their Firm, and they are more likely to take advantage of Adjustment etc etc. It all means that you end up with a greater concentration of private school applicants at those Unis.

Be careful before you assume a direct 'causal correlation' in this sort of situation - it's usually far more complicated than it might first appear.
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Smack
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(Original post by GandalfWhite)
I am not putting down any universities or any graduates, just acknowledging the fact that top companies do recognise certain top universities. Why? One reason is that these universities have performed a screening role through their selection of students in the first place. In general, students from MIT Imperial Melbourne Harvard HKU NUS are known to be smart and self driven, high achievers. In US the top graduates even get signing on bonuses. And their salaries are higher as top companies try to attract such top talent. The most important resource in a company is its human resources. Those who do not recognise or are unable to attract the best talents may not be as competitive. I can go on and on but it may appear negative to some even though I am just trying to point out some positives about top universities. If you have a choice of a top university and a good university choose the top. Iron sharpens iron and you become better by studying and competing with better cohort. All engineering courses meet the minimum curriculum required for accreditation but better students allow some curriculum to be pushed further otherwise it will be a walk in the park for those students. That's also why certain universities have a much higher % of 2:1 and above. In fact these universities probably have double the average % in 1st. Like it or not a degree from a top university is a signal to employers that this person should be able to learn faster, be more productive, is more self motivated and may be contribute more to the future of the company. All said it is still just an indicator. If performance does not meet expectations others will be promoted ahead of such people as actual performance become the next better indicator of future success. Good luck to everyone whichever university you graduate from. Hard work and attitude plays a more important part after graduation and one can catch up and go ahead of even the smart ones as the game and goal posts change at work and in life.
What constitutes a top company?
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Costanzas
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lol,just lol .mentioning harvard and MIT with hku,nus[,melbourne.not even in the same league bro.never will be. QUOTE=GandalfWhite;50397081]I am not putting down any universities or any graduates, just acknowledging the fact that top companies do recognise certain top universities. Why? One reason is that these universities have performed a screening role through their selection of students in the first place. In general, students from MIT Imperial Melbourne Harvard HKU NUS are known to be smart and self driven, high achievers. In US the top graduates even get signing on bonuses. And their salaries are higher as top companies try to attract such top talent. The most important resource in a company is its human resources. Those who do not recognise or are unable to attract the best talents may not be as competitive. I can go on and on but it may appear negative to some even though I am just trying to point out some positives about top universities. If you have a choice of a top university and a good university choose the top. Iron sharpens iron and you become better by studying and competing with better cohort. All engineering courses meet the minimum curriculum required for accreditation but better students allow some curriculum to be pushed further otherwise it will be a walk in the park for those students. That's also why certain universities have a much higher % of 2:1 and above. In fact these universities probably have double the average % in 1st. Like it or not a degree from a top university is a signal to employers that this person should be able to learn faster, be more productive, is more self motivated and may be contribute more to the future of the company. All said it is still just an indicator. If performance does not meet expectations others will be promoted ahead of such people as actual performance become the next better indicator of future success. Good luck to everyone whichever university you graduate from. Hard work and attitude plays a more important part after graduation and one can catch up and go ahead of even the smart ones as the game and goal posts change at work and in life.[/QUOTE]
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Costanzas
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try getting a job in a american/european "top firm"with an NUS/HKUST /melbourne degree,in the US or UK/canada etc
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