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What would have happened if the Germans had conquered Russia?
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My dad read today that on 12th April 1944 the headline of the Telegraph was that the Russians had swept into Crimea. Seventy years on very little has changed.
But this got me wondering: what would have happened if the Germans had conquered Russia after they invaded in 1941? Would we have still had the Cold War, and would our knowledge of the universe and nuclear weapons still be at the level it is today? Would Germany have gone on to conquer Western Europe and the UK with their new, strengthened forces? Would the US have ever entered the war? (Probably, as it wouldn't have stopped Pearl Harbour from happening).
Just a random question, it might have been asked on here before. Forgive me if my view is a little oversimplified, I haven't done history since year nine
But this got me wondering: what would have happened if the Germans had conquered Russia after they invaded in 1941? Would we have still had the Cold War, and would our knowledge of the universe and nuclear weapons still be at the level it is today? Would Germany have gone on to conquer Western Europe and the UK with their new, strengthened forces? Would the US have ever entered the war? (Probably, as it wouldn't have stopped Pearl Harbour from happening).
Just a random question, it might have been asked on here before. Forgive me if my view is a little oversimplified, I haven't done history since year nine
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#3
(Original post by WhiteHistoryRev)
Europeans would have been liberated from the evils of communism.
Europeans would have been liberated from the evils of communism.
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#4
Well Germany never planned on "conquering" the USSR (get it right 
) as such. More or less a favorable eventual peace in their favor.... aka more land.
Either way it was pretty much impossible for Germany to win....
Even if by some miracle they managed to destroy Russia's industrial capability and forced them to surrender, the USSR would have rejoined as soon as japan declared war on the USA.
Even "if" Russia had lost, we most likely would of had some comparable outrage to the holocaust due to what the USSR did during ww2.
) as such. More or less a favorable eventual peace in their favor.... aka more land.Either way it was pretty much impossible for Germany to win....
Even if by some miracle they managed to destroy Russia's industrial capability and forced them to surrender, the USSR would have rejoined as soon as japan declared war on the USA.
Even "if" Russia had lost, we most likely would of had some comparable outrage to the holocaust due to what the USSR did during ww2.
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#5
Even if the Germans somehow by all odds took Leningrad and Moscow, it wouldn't have prevented the Allied invasion of France, and the Germans would be far too stretched holding occupied Russia and protecting the German heartland from the encroaching allies. Probably would have eventually led to the same outcome but instead it would be the Americans and British reaching Berlin rather than the Soviets.
As for the whole communist issue, there's far too many variables at play to say that communism would die out with a succesful Nazi invasion.
It's all a moot point though. If we have learnt anything from history it's that you can't invade Russia on the ground. It's just too goddamn big to not end up having dispersed forces, let alone the famous Russian winter that has saved it from outside invasion so many times. Theres no way the Germans would have been able to hold an occupied Russia either whilst simultaneously fighting the Americans.
As for the whole communist issue, there's far too many variables at play to say that communism would die out with a succesful Nazi invasion.
It's all a moot point though. If we have learnt anything from history it's that you can't invade Russia on the ground. It's just too goddamn big to not end up having dispersed forces, let alone the famous Russian winter that has saved it from outside invasion so many times. Theres no way the Germans would have been able to hold an occupied Russia either whilst simultaneously fighting the Americans.
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#6
(Original post by dlyslexlicth)
It's all a moot point though. If we have learnt anything from history it's that you can't invade Russia on the ground. It's just too goddamn big to not end up having dispersed forces, let alone the famous Russian winter that has saved it from outside invasion so many times. Theres no way the Germans would have been able to hold an occupied Russia either whilst simultaneously fighting the Americans.
It's all a moot point though. If we have learnt anything from history it's that you can't invade Russia on the ground. It's just too goddamn big to not end up having dispersed forces, let alone the famous Russian winter that has saved it from outside invasion so many times. Theres no way the Germans would have been able to hold an occupied Russia either whilst simultaneously fighting the Americans.
It's more to do with A) Outnumbering the Russians and B) Being able to outproduce them.
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#7
You may wish to read the alternate history novel Fatherland by Robert Harris. I didn't care much for the story, but found the geopolitical situation (drip-fed to the reader throughout the book) fascinating.
As you could guess it's an alternate history where Nazi Germany wins the war, but the Pacific Theatre continues as normal with the USA defeating Japan and the two new superpowers engaging in a cold war. Essentially Germany manages to defeat the USSR but only up until the Urals, and Stalin remains in command beyond them. As such the Germans, in the quest to create 'lebensraum', are drawn into a seemingly endless guerilla war in the occupied Soviet Union, which the US perpetuates by sending equipment, intel, and supplies to Stalin and his ilk. From what I recall in the book it's implied that becoming a settler in the East is an unpopular option due to the high risk of death, and the lebensraum project ends up being a massive moneysink overall.
From such an interpretation one could wonder whether in the event that he had conquered the Soviet Union Hitler would have squandered money trying to enact his crazy dreams over common sense policies, something that happened time and time again in real life.
As you could guess it's an alternate history where Nazi Germany wins the war, but the Pacific Theatre continues as normal with the USA defeating Japan and the two new superpowers engaging in a cold war. Essentially Germany manages to defeat the USSR but only up until the Urals, and Stalin remains in command beyond them. As such the Germans, in the quest to create 'lebensraum', are drawn into a seemingly endless guerilla war in the occupied Soviet Union, which the US perpetuates by sending equipment, intel, and supplies to Stalin and his ilk. From what I recall in the book it's implied that becoming a settler in the East is an unpopular option due to the high risk of death, and the lebensraum project ends up being a massive moneysink overall.
From such an interpretation one could wonder whether in the event that he had conquered the Soviet Union Hitler would have squandered money trying to enact his crazy dreams over common sense policies, something that happened time and time again in real life.
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(Original post by DanB1991)
Well Germany never planned on "conquering" the USSR (get it right ) as such. More or less a favorable eventual peace in their favor.... aka more land.
Either way it was pretty much impossible for Germany to win....
Even if by some miracle they managed to destroy Russia's industrial capability and forced them to surrender, the USSR would have rejoined as soon as japan declared war on the USA.
Even "if" Russia had lost, we most likely would of had some comparable outrage to the holocaust due to what the USSR did during ww2.
Well Germany never planned on "conquering" the USSR (get it right
) as such. More or less a favorable eventual peace in their favor.... aka more land.Either way it was pretty much impossible for Germany to win....
Even if by some miracle they managed to destroy Russia's industrial capability and forced them to surrender, the USSR would have rejoined as soon as japan declared war on the USA.
Even "if" Russia had lost, we most likely would of had some comparable outrage to the holocaust due to what the USSR did during ww2.
I know they were never likely to and the Japanese would have complicated things (although the treated their prisoners much worse than certainly Germany and maybe even Russia from what I've heard...), I was thinking more about what's happened since the war- although Russia is huge, so most likely not a lot different! 
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(Original post by Moosferatu)
You may wish to read the alternate history novel Fatherland by Robert Harris. I didn't care much for the story, but found the geopolitical situation (drip-fed to the reader throughout the book) fascinating.
As you could guess it's an alternate history where Nazi Germany wins the war, but the Pacific Theatre continues as normal with the USA defeating Japan and the two new superpowers engaging in a cold war. Essentially Germany manages to defeat the USSR but only up until the Urals, and Stalin remains in command beyond them. As such the Germans, in the quest to create 'lebensraum', are drawn into a seemingly endless guerilla war in the occupied Soviet Union, which the US perpetuates by sending equipment, intel, and supplies to Stalin and his ilk. From what I recall in the book it's implied that becoming a settler in the East is an unpopular option due to the high risk of death, and the lebensraum project ends up being a massive moneysink overall.
From such an interpretation one could wonder whether in the event that he had conquered the Soviet Union Hitler would have squandered money trying to enact his crazy dreams over common sense policies, something that happened time and time again in real life.
You may wish to read the alternate history novel Fatherland by Robert Harris. I didn't care much for the story, but found the geopolitical situation (drip-fed to the reader throughout the book) fascinating.
As you could guess it's an alternate history where Nazi Germany wins the war, but the Pacific Theatre continues as normal with the USA defeating Japan and the two new superpowers engaging in a cold war. Essentially Germany manages to defeat the USSR but only up until the Urals, and Stalin remains in command beyond them. As such the Germans, in the quest to create 'lebensraum', are drawn into a seemingly endless guerilla war in the occupied Soviet Union, which the US perpetuates by sending equipment, intel, and supplies to Stalin and his ilk. From what I recall in the book it's implied that becoming a settler in the East is an unpopular option due to the high risk of death, and the lebensraum project ends up being a massive moneysink overall.
From such an interpretation one could wonder whether in the event that he had conquered the Soviet Union Hitler would have squandered money trying to enact his crazy dreams over common sense policies, something that happened time and time again in real life.
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#10
(Original post by furryface12)
My dad read today that on 12th April 1944 the headline of the Telegraph was that the Russians had swept into Crimea. Seventy years on very little has changed.
My dad read today that on 12th April 1944 the headline of the Telegraph was that the Russians had swept into Crimea. Seventy years on very little has changed.
But this got me wondering: what would have happened if the Germans had conquered Russia after they invaded in 1941? Would we have still had the Cold War, and would our knowledge of the universe and nuclear weapons still be at the level it is today?
Our knowledge of nuclear weapons would have been the same, whilst our knowledge of the universe may even be greater due to the emphasis the Nazi regime would have placed upon it.
Would Germany have gone on to conquer Western Europe and the UK with their new, strengthened forces?
With their newly-acquired resources from the Caucuses, the Nazis would have enough power to put Operation Sea Lion into effect and knock London out of the equation. This leaves the US in a fragile situation: it is unable to land troops in Western Europe because it has no friendly landing zone, thus it seems that evil would have prevailed on our continent.
Would the US have ever entered the war? (Probably, as it wouldn't have stopped Pearl Harbour from happening).
This is under the assumption that Britain has fallen in 1941 - 1942 latest.
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#11
(Original post by WhiteHistoryRev)
Europeans would have been liberated from the evils of communism.
Europeans would have been liberated from the evils of communism.
A far better alternative history is one in which WW1 never happens, the 1917 Bolshevik revolution never happens, the 1933 German revolution never happens and the Cold war never happens.
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#12
(Original post by DanB1991)
Even "if" Russia had lost, we most likely would of had some comparable outrage to the holocaust due to what the USSR did during ww2.
Even "if" Russia had lost, we most likely would of had some comparable outrage to the holocaust due to what the USSR did during ww2.
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