The OFFICIAL Why-allow-unskilled-immigration-when-we-have-unemployed-UK-people?thread

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billydisco
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Some come on then- lets have THE debate.

I would like a pro-low-skilled-immigration supporter to give me a proper logical reason what was the point in allowing hundreds of thousands/millions of unskilled Eastern Europeans to emmigrate to the UK since 2004, when we have always had unemployed unskilled workers in the UK?

(albeit the Labout party were showering them with so much cash they didnt need to apply for jobs).

Let me tell you why this is one of the most stupid actions ever:

1) We already have unemployed, low-skilled UK workers looking for jobs
2) These people are not bringing new skills to the country
3) The over-supply of low-skilled labour will suppress wages.
4) These people will also require power/electricity, requiring UK plc to consume even more power.
5) These people will increase the demand placed on housing, requiring new building
6) These people are low-skilled, poorer, will mostly rent and therefore drive up the cost of rent, which drives up the rent for all those lower-class who rent. This also causes a problem for the Government who now have to pay higher housing benefit.
7) The number of school places is absolutely stretched. So now we have to build more school/places.
8) The stress this puts on our NHS/doctor/dental surgeries.
9) The stress this puts on our transport infrastructure

So lets recap- there are two options here:

a) Stop low-skilled people emigrating to the UK:

-Force companies to employ unemployed UK people (if a person receiving benefits refuses a job which is within their skill level, remove their benefits)
-This will reduce the benefits bill
-We do not need to concrete-over the countryside building houses
-Rental prices will not increase as much
-Low-skilled wages will not be suppresed as much
-We wont have to increase NHS capacity as much
-We wont have to increase education places as much
-We wont have to increase UK plc power consumption
-Our transport infrastructure will not be as congested

b) Keep allowing low-skilled emigration in to the UK:

-Companies are more-likely to hire low-skilled Eastern European migrants on the very minimum wage.
-The number of British people unemployed doesn't decrease.
-The benefits bill doesn't decrease
-We will need to concrete-over the countryside to house our "valuable" new workers.
-Rental prices will/have rocketed
-Wages will have been suppresed
-We will have to spend more taxpayer money increasing the capacity of the NHS
-We will have to spend more taxpayer money increasing education places
-We will have to spend more money increasing the power infrastructure
-We will have to spend more money on increasing transport infrastructure.

Please no replies of:

"We will have to invest more money on X anyway"
Yes I am aware of that- but less people- less we have to spend on it.

"Immigrants boost the economy"
Does the economy not increase when British workers are the ones employed where an immigrant would have worked?

"You're racist"
I have no problem with high-skilled Eastern European immigrants.

"Building houses will boost the economy"
No it won't- no new money has entered the country, its just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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billydisco
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(Original post by G8D)
I didn't read your whole post but surely if 'we have always had unemployed unskilled workers in the UK' then we needed a certain level of immigrants to take the jobs these people are unwilling to do.
A person on benefits should be removed from benefits if they refuse to take a (fairly-evenly matched skill) job where employers are struggling to fill.
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billydisco
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(Original post by G8D)
I'd probably agree with your sentiment but that isn't an immigration issue.
My point is saying why are we "importing" skills we have aplenty, so it is an immigration issue.

If we already have these skills, receiving benefits and they refuse a job- remove benefits.
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billydisco
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What a surprise- I did think this might shut a few people up...
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username1344042
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(Original post by billydisco)
What a surprise- I did think this might shut a few people up...
I'm genuinely surprised you haven't been called racist yet - but I guess you anticipated that beforehand given that we are on TSR.


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username1221160
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(Original post by billydisco)
What a surprise- I did think this might shut a few people up...
It's Sunday. Drink some alcohol, watch some TV and stop complaining on the internet about the foreign hordes for just a few hours.
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billydisco
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(Original post by Quantex)
It's Sunday. Drink some alcohol, watch some TV and stop complaining on the internet about the foreign hordes for just a few hours.
This isn't about "foreigners", its about importing skills we have aplenty.....
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username1221160
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(Original post by billydisco)
This isn't about "foreigners", its about importing skills we have aplenty.....
Unemployment is falling and had been for quite some time now. This is despite our labour market being opened up to Romanians and Bulgarians. So I don't see what the the problem is.

Also, migration is a two way thing. Maybe low skilled Brits should learn from migrants and be more willing to move to places where there are jobs, be it the other end of the UK or to a European country.
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billydisco
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(Original post by Quantex)
Unemployment is falling and had been for quite some time now. This is despite our labour market being opened up to Romanians and Bulgarians. So I don't see what the the problem is.
Are there low-skilled unemployed people in the UK who cannot find employment? I presume that homeless guy who appeared on the Barking Question Time just enjoys sleeping on pavements?

(Original post by Quantex)
Also, migration is a two way thing. Maybe low skilled Brits should learn from migrants and be more willing to move to places where there are jobs, be it the other end of the UK or to a European country.
Oh so because Romanians come to the UK you are asking why don't British people go to Romania? Gee I wonder why!?

So, I will ask again- why import (at extortionate cost) low-skilled workers from abroad when we have plenty here who want jobs?
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username1221160
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(Original post by billydisco)
Are there low-skilled unemployed people in the UK who cannot find employment? I presume that homeless guy who appeared on the Barking Question Time just enjoys sleeping on pavements?


Oh so because Romanians come to the UK you are asking why don't British people go to Romania? Gee I wonder why!?

So, I will ask again- why import (at extortionate cost) low-skilled workers from abroad when we have plenty here who want jobs?
I'm sure that you are not that obtuse, so don't tell me I've stated something that I have not. I stated the other end of the UK or a European country. I did not ask why they don't move to Romania.
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billydisco
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(Original post by Quantex)
I'm sure that you are not that obtuse, so don't tell me I've stated something that I have not. I stated the other end of the UK or a European country. I did not ask why they don't move to Romania.
You keep avoiding my question:

Why are we "importing" low-skilled workers at a massive cost to our infrastructure when we have plenty of unemployed low-skilled people in the UK already?
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billydisco
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Nobody can answer my question then? Its a very simple question....
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tengentoppa
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The immigrants can form the new sub-class doing menial jobs like sweeping the streets. Immigration is a problem for working-class people, so the middle and upper classes will scoff at you and label you a bigot for being anti-immigration.
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Old_Simon
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Normally by this time posters start bleating on about racism and human rights.
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billydisco
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(Original post by tengentoppa)
The immigrants can form the new sub-class doing menial jobs like sweeping the streets. Immigration is a problem for working-class people, so the middle and upper classes will scoff at you and label you a bigot for being anti-immigration.
So you think all the masses of British low-skilled workers (who have sod-all qualifications) will suddenly start working more-skilled jobs?
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tengentoppa
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(Original post by billydisco)
So you think all the masses of British low-skilled workers (who have sod-all qualifications) will suddenly start working more-skilled jobs?
That would be nice, but honestly I don't think that would happen. Still, immigration is only a serious issue for the working-class and therefore not me, so I don't really care.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by G8D)
I didn't read your whole post but surely if 'we have always had unemployed unskilled workers in the UK' then we needed a certain level of immigrants to take the jobs these people are unwilling to do.

Why do people keep saying this? Who are these Brits who are "too good" for these jobs. Most people (I hope) would rather do one of these jobs than be unemployed.

By saying British people are too lazy or stuck up to do these jobs is discriminatory against the working class!
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by billydisco)
Some come on then- lets have THE debate.

I would like a pro-low-skilled-immigration supporter to give me a proper logical reason what was the point in allowing hundreds of thousands/millions of unskilled Eastern Europeans to emmigrate to the UK since 2004, when we have always had unemployed unskilled workers in the UK?

(albeit the Labout party were showering them with so much cash they didnt need to apply for jobs).

Let me tell you why this is one of the most stupid actions ever:

1) We already have unemployed, low-skilled UK workers looking for jobs
2) These people are not bringing new skills to the country
3) The over-supply of low-skilled labour will suppress wages.
4) These people will also require power/electricity, requiring UK plc to consume even more power.
5) These people will increase the demand placed on housing, requiring new building
6) These people are low-skilled, poorer, will mostly rent and therefore drive up the cost of rent, which drives up the rent for all those lower-class who rent. This also causes a problem for the Government who now have to pay higher housing benefit.
7) The number of school places is absolutely stretched. So now we have to build more school/places.
8) The stress this puts on our NHS/doctor/dental surgeries.
9) The stress this puts on our transport infrastructure
I expect that one of the reasons we allow migrants to enter this country (either skilled or unskilled) is because they are good for business; try and find a private sector service that complains they have too many customers. Lower wages are also favourable to an employer, and a greater demand for housing/energy is good for those who provide housing/energy.

(Original post by billydisco)
a) Stop low-skilled people emigrating to the UK:

-Force companies to employ unemployed UK people (if a person receiving benefits refuses a job which is within their skill level, remove their benefits)
How would you enforce this?
How would you prevent companies from lying and saying ''this worker is not skilled enough for the job!''?
What if there are no companies in the area that can actually employ an unemployed person (for either financial or ''lack of work'' reasons)?
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Ace123
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it is ridiculous to let in more immigrants when we have over 2 million unemployed
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Le Nombre
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(Original post by Ace123)
it is ridiculous to let in more immigrants when we have over 2 million unemployed
Any immigrants at all? Those 2 million unemployed might not have the skills certain employers require, my firm recently required a transactional lawyer who spoke fluent Arabic with a good, working knowledge of both French and English legal systems, I might be wrong but I doubt there was someone with that particular skill set in the 2 million unemployed and if there was they wasted thousands on a chinny to find that person.


OP, with regard E Europeans, well it's the law we have no choice. Also, they're ****ing cheap.
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