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Pimps and aka escort agencies , what should be done with these ? Watch

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    AFAIK France has made the whole prostitution scene illegal. But, I do not even see prostitution itself as the major danger after some thought. The problem is, I think, at the middle you have people traffickers and people with vested interests in exploiting women for financial gain. I.e. Owning these women. You take out the middle man? You make the whole problem a whole lot easier to manage imo.
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    Prostitution is just an occupation imo - you're selling something for money so nothing wrong with it. I think take out the middle men and set up brothels which are actually safe and regulated then the women/men are in a safe place where they can't be taken advantage of. I don't know if I've explained it very well but I once saw a really good post on why brothels should be legalised

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    (Original post by charlottejyp)
    Prostitution is just an occupation imo - you're selling something for money so nothing wrong with it. I think take out the middle men and set up brothels which are actually safe and regulated then the women/men are in a safe place where they can't be taken advantage of. I don't know if I've explained it very well but I once saw a really good post on why brothels should be legalised

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    I agree with brothels (with it just being literally a building) and that there should be some governmental regulation. But, middle men are the antithesis of safety imo.
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    Brothels should become part of the public sector. Those working there should get free health check ups and they should be regulated. There should also be fixed prices. Going to a brothel should be seen as no different to going to the pub. Everyone has their vices. For some its drinking, for others its a bit of marijuana and for others its sex.
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    (Original post by Mickey O'Neil)
    Brothels should become part of the public sector. Those working there should get free health check ups and they should be regulated. There should also be fixed prices. Going to a brothel should be seen as no different to going to the pub. Everyone has their vices. For some its drinking, for others its a bit of marijuana and for others its sex.
    Indeed. As a law grad and as part of my research for an internship i have been doing , i have been looking at the industry and what strikes me is just how far women get exploited. Not just foreign ones but also domestic ones. It's not all just trafficking based wrongs.
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    (Original post by DurhamXI)
    AFAIK France has made the whole prostitution scene illegal. But, I do not even see prostitution itself as the major danger after some thought. The problem is, I think, at the middle you have people traffickers and people with vested interests in exploiting women for financial gain. I.e. Owning these women. You take out the middle man? You make the whole problem a whole lot easier to manage imo.
    It needs to be properly regulated on licensed premises (so no street prostitution) in my opinion. Off the top of my head, I would suggest the following:
    • Mandatory health checks every two weeks, certificates of sexual health must be clearly displayed.
    • Condoms are compulsory for any form of penetrational sex.
    • No zero hour contracts and a higher minimum wage
    • Sex workers may use pseudonyms to all but the employer and HMRC
    • Sex workers must use some form of chemical contraceptive whilst employed at a brothel
    • No admittance to under 18s (obviously)
    • Tax
    • Either party may withdraw consent at any time.
    • Sex workers must hold UK citizenship (anti-trafficking measure)
    • Neither party may participate if they are under the effects of any intoxicating substance.
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    In short, you regulate it properly and acknowledge it as a business option or you make it illegal and just put it underground again. Making it illegal like they have in France has just shoved it under the carpet and made it shadier than before.
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    All prostitution is an exploitation for money of women's economic position in society and is quite rightly being outlawed in many EU nations.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    All prostitution is an exploitation for money of women's economic position in society and is quite rightly being outlawed in many EU nations.
    surely that's the stealing of a woman's personal choices, autonomy and rights, though? isn't it rather condescending to tell a woman when and how she's allowed to have sex with another adult if she desires to? why does doing it for money make a difference? if trading services for money is legal why is sex any different? and I thought the whole idea behind feminism or the "women's rights movement" was to treat women like they're equal to men and to give them dignity, not to assume they think like children and can't make their own personal/economic choices?

    and as for my own opinion on what should be done, I'd treat the sex industry (including prostitution and brothels) as any other industry - once someone reaches the age of consent, 16 (opposed to 18 - because in my opinion being old to have sex and be old enough to have a job is logical enough), then they should be allowed to do whatever they want in terms of those kinds of things, but they must appreciate that they are putting themselves at risk of sexually transmitted infections/diseases and pregnancies (although in my opinion, especially in the case of brothels, I don't think prostitution/pornography is a particularly dangerous industry all in all). and I'm saying this for both males and females - if there's a market and there's demand for sex and there's consent, then why prohibit it if it is a private contractual transaction? it should be treated not as a government industry or a quasi-public industry, it should be fully private and regulated by contracts/private legislation between involved parties.
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    (Original post by Mickey O'Neil)
    Brothels should become part of the public sector. Those working there should get free health check ups and they should be regulated. There should also be fixed prices. Going to a brothel should be seen as no different to going to the pub. Everyone has their vices. For some its drinking, for others its a bit of marijuana and for others its sex.
    lol
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    (Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
    surely that's the stealing of a woman's personal choices, autonomy and rights, though? isn't it rather condescending to tell a woman when and how she's allowed to have sex with another adult if she desires to? why does doing it for money make a difference? if trading services for money is legal why is sex any different? and I thought the whole idea behind feminism or the "women's rights movement" was to treat women like they're equal to men and to give them dignity, not to assume they think like children and can't make their own personal/economic choices?

    and as for my own opinion on what should be done, I'd treat the sex industry (including prostitution and brothels) as any other industry - once someone reaches the age of consent, 16 (opposed to 18 - because in my opinion being old to have sex and be old enough to have a job is logical enough), then they should be allowed to do whatever they want in terms of those kinds of things, but they must appreciate that they are putting themselves at risk of sexually transmitted infections/diseases and pregnancies (although in my opinion, especially in the case of brothels, I don't think prostitution/pornography is a particularly dangerous industry all in all). and I'm saying this for both males and females - if there's a market and there's demand for sex and there's consent, then why prohibit it if it is a private contractual transaction? it should be treated not as a government industry or a quasi-public industry, it should be fully private and regulated by contracts/private legislation between involved parties.
    This "market" as you call it is often populated by addicts, vulnerable women, runaways and minors, people being trafficked, and victims of abuse and violence tantamount to human slavery. If men want to have "sex" with such victims then the men need to be criminalised. Of course Tory MPs who enjoy a bit of botty spanking remain in favour.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    This "market" as you call it is often populated by addicts, vulnerable women, runaways and minors, people being trafficked, and victims of abuse and violence tantamount to human slavery. If men want to have "sex" with such victims then the men need to be criminalised. Of course Tory MPs who enjoy a bit of botty spanking remain in favour.
    addicts? of drugs? so what? if I have sex with a person addicted to drugs is it rape if I offer them drugs for sex? surely it is to their own manifest advantage if I give them what they want if they give me what I want? and giving someone sex is not expensive - it is free, so I don't see how it is at all exploitative if they are purely gaining from it.
    vulnerable? what constitutes vulnerable? poor? does that mean every poor person can't be hired to do anything?
    run aways? are you talking about homeless people? at least there'd be something out there giving them a regular source of income opposed to no job at all though, right?
    and victims of abuse? so what? I have no idea how that is a factor here - if victims of abuse want to go into a particular industry of their own free will then does that mean that the entire industry must be burned down with them?
    and why are you suggesting that it's only men that should be "criminalised" (surely you mean criminally charged)? what about the women? that's a somewhat sexist generalisation
    and why are you attributing something that's illegal to the tories? brothels and (street crawling) prostitution isn't legal and we have a tory (coalition) government
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    This "market" as you call it is often populated by addicts, vulnerable women, runaways and minors, people being trafficked, and victims of abuse and violence tantamount to human slavery. If men want to have "sex" with such victims then the men need to be criminalised.
    Surely it would be better then, if it were regulated openly rather than forced underground and into the hands of criminals?
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    The government needs to encourage their growth.
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    (Original post by TheEssence)
    lol
    if not for the risk of STDs I'd be ordering hookers like dominoes :lol: okay maybe but for the price...and my sense of value
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    The Pros and Cons of legalising prostitution:

    http://prostitution.procon.org/view....ourceID=000115

    And having read that and considered both sides of the debate, quite frankly I believe that prostitution should be legalised. Its all very well saying we should work to abolish prostitution altogether, rather than legalise it, but is it realistic to think that that could actually happen? Is there any evidence to suggest that that could be achieved, because surely those in the 'industry' will find whatever way they can to keep it going underground. As long as there are women out there who need the money and desperate men who want sex, then I fear it would be virtually impossible to completely abolish it. If it was possible to completely abolish it, then I would certainly support that, but until I see evidence that it is and that the government would be willing to make a real effort and put resources into that, then I believe legalisation would be the best action to take.

    And I think one of the key points in the argument for legalisation is the problem of violence. By legalising it, you give prostitutes the safety and protection of a regulated brothel and protection of the law, rather than forcing them to walk the streets at night or be exploited by pimps, which obviously is highly dangerous and as shown in the article, men just believe they can do what they want with those women because they know the woman will have little protection in a criminalised profession and they'll believe they can probably get away with it and the guy in the case shown in the article managed to get away with it for 20 years and murder 48 women.

    Too often the problem is that people only look at the debate from a moral perspective, without any consideration of the wider picture and I certainly believe that if people considered the wider picture in terms of protecting the women or combating trafficking, instead of just dismissing it as immoral and pretending it doesn't exist, then there wouldn't be so many in opposition.
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    (Original post by Olie)
    The Pros and Cons of legalising prostitution:

    http://prostitution.procon.org/view....ourceID=000115

    And having read that and considered both sides of the debate, quite frankly I believe that prostitution should be legalised. Its all very well saying we should work to abolish prostitution altogether, rather than legalise it, but is it realistic to think that that could actually happen? Is there any evidence to suggest that that could be achieved, because surely those in the 'industry' will find whatever way they can to keep it going underground. As long as there are women out there who need the money and desperate men who want sex, then I fear it would be virtually impossible to completely abolish it. If it was possible to completely abolish it, then I would certainly support that, but until I see evidence that it is and that the government would be willing to make a real effort and put resources into that, then I believe legalisation would be the best action to take.

    And I think one of the key points in the argument for legalisation is the problem of violence. By legalising it, you give prostitutes the safety and protection of a regulated brothel and protection of the law, rather than forcing them to walk the streets at night or be exploited by pimps, which obviously is highly dangerous and as shown in the article, men just believe they can do what they want with those women because they know the woman will have little protection in a criminalised profession and they'll believe they can probably get away with it and the guy in the case shown in the article managed to get away with it for 20 years and murder 48 women.

    Too often the problem is that people only look at the debate from a moral perspective, without any consideration of the wider picture and I certainly believe that if people considered the wider picture in terms of protecting the women or combating trafficking, instead of just dismissing it as immoral and pretending it doesn't exist, then there wouldn't be so many in opposition.
    in terms of the problem of the risk of violence to women in the industry I think that ironically the illegality of brothels is the prime culprit of this problem because with safe indoor areas with (probably) protection and control, women aren't at risk of being taken somewhere and raped without the rapist being caught. the fact that brothels are illegal is a total flop in terms of the intention of protecting women seeing as it causes them to go into a black market-esque route for getting money which is much more likely to end up violently than a legal brothel subject to the law
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    (Original post by Comus)
    It needs to be properly regulated on licensed premises (so no street prostitution) in my opinion. Off the top of my head, I would suggest the following:
    [LIST]
    [*[*]Sex workers must use some form of chemical contraceptive whilst employed at a brothel
    This is the only one I disagree with.

    If they are using condoms then there is very little need.

    All forms of chemical contraception can have side effects even if they aren't noticeable and there are some women out there whose bodies just dont like the chemicals at all.
    I know three women who have tried every contraception available and their bodies just dont like them and throw up big problems whenever they try to use them.

    You are then forcing women to either work unsafely or put chemical substances they dont want into their bodies, which is wrong.

    And guys get off scot free, because there is no chemical contraception for them at present. If the risk of just condoms is good enough for them, then it should be good enough for female workers too.
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    (Original post by kunoichi)
    This is the only one I disagree with.

    If they are using condoms then there is very little need.

    All forms of chemical contraception can have side effects even if they aren't noticeable and there are some women out there whose bodies just dont like the chemicals at all.
    I know three women who have tried every contraception available and their bodies just dont like them and throw up big problems whenever they try to use them.

    You are then forcing women to either work unsafely or put chemical substances they dont want into their bodies, which is wrong.

    And guys get off scot free, because there is no chemical contraception for them at present. If the risk of just condoms is good enough for them, then it should be good enough for female workers too.
    I see your point but condoms can break, chemical contraception would largely serve as a backup. In the case of male sex workers (admittedly, far fewer than female sex workers and fewer still with women clients), as far as I am aware there is currently a 'male pill' in development which works via protein inhibitors rather than hormones - alas, still 5-10 years away before it can be released on the market. However, you do raise valid objections and I suppose that, at least for now that item can be struck off the list.
 
 
 
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