PM's claim: "UK a Christian Country" risks alienating parts of society Watch

demx9
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More than 50 writers, scientists, broadcasters and academics have signed an open letter expressing concern at the 'negative consequences' of the Prime Minister's assertion in a country where most people do not describe themselves as Christian.

It follows the article last week for the Church Times by Mr Cameron in which he wrote of his own faith and his desire to infuse politics with Christian ideals and values.
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meenu89
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Just because he said what he said he doesn't demean any other faith/ faiths.
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weirdnessandcoffee
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I think it would be accurate, to say, for this current time that yes, the UK is a 'Christian country'. By this, I am assuming he means most of us follow 'Christian' tradition like celebrating Xmas, Easter, Pancake day- is that Christian tradition?
In about 10 or 15 years, It would be absurd to say so.
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crayz
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(Original post by meenu89)
Just because he said what he said he doesn't demean any other faith/ faiths.
David Cameron believes that most of the country is going to go to hell unacceptable this is the ugly face of fascism.
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by meenu89)
Just because he said what he said he doesn't demean any other faith/ faiths.
it depends if he was talking about how we have a national church (the basis for him saying "we're a christian country") or if he was saying something akin to "we're all christians here" - not quite :lol: we're (or at least pretty soon "we" will be) more non-religious than christian
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Pete_91
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(Original post by weirdnessandcoffee)
I think it would be accurate, to say, for this current time that yes, the UK is a 'Christian country'. By this, I am assuming he means most of us follow 'Christian' tradition like celebrating Xmas, Easter, Pancake day- is that Christian tradition?
In about 10 or 15 years, It would be absurd to say so.
They're all commercial holidays now that have roots in Christianity (and paganism/zoroastrianism before that). Celebrating them doesn't make you a Christian.

Regularly attending services of a religion makes you a member of a religion for me.
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xDave-
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It's pretty worrying that, in this day and age, he still wants religion to have an impact on politics.
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weirdnessandcoffee
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(Original post by Pete_91)
They're all commercial holidays now that have roots in Christianity (and paganism/zoroastrianism before that). Celebrating them doesn't make you a Christian.

Regularly attending services of a religion makes you a member of a religion for me.
I'd have to argue that if one believes in the 'good will' behind them, then they are conforming to Christian ideals.

Yes, I agree that they are not Christian. But Christian ideals do make up our society.
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infairverona
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Probably trying to claw back from people saying Sharia law will take over etc etc. I'm not religious but I'd rather we had laws informed by Christian values than any other religion, if it has to be that way.
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Serentonin
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Religion has no place in politics in this day and age. Stfu cameron.
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The Champion.m4a
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(Original post by weirdnessandcoffee)
I think it would be accurate, to say, for this current time that yes, the UK is a 'Christian country'. By this, I am assuming he means most of us follow 'Christian' tradition like celebrating Xmas, Easter, Pancake day- is that Christian tradition?
In about 10 or 15 years, It would be absurd to say so.
They were all stolen festivals from other older religions though. Like 14 gods predated Jesus were born on Christmas day, with Jesus never really having a claim around 25 December. Easter was for Goddess Easter.

And nowadays obviously many celebrity both as consumers' festivals.

I don't know about pancake day.
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Pete_91
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(Original post by weirdnessandcoffee)
I'd have to argue that if one believes in the 'good will' behind them, then they are conforming to Christian ideals.

Yes, I agree that they are not Christian. But Christian ideals do make up our society.
Christian ideals are vague and cover all manner of things that were ideals before Christianity came about. Most of the ten commandments (the ones that aren't about god and his vanity) are from religions and codes pre-Christianity. By the same logic the ideals that are espoused in the bible that are abhorrent are also Christian ideals, such as:

murdering homosexuals
selling your daughter into prostitution
condoning rape
condoning slavery
committing genocide

and so on.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by infairverona)
Probably trying to claw back from people saying Sharia law will take over etc etc. I'm not religious but I'd rather we had laws informed by Christian values than any other religion, if it has to be that way.
Hmm... I'm not so sure. There are some good values in Christianity such as most of what Jesus said, but it is worrying how Christianity does not repudiate the disgusting Old testament values - at least, not directly.

The good thing is, we don't have to choose any ancient (or new) religion to base our laws on. We can base them on, guess what - reason!
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The Champion.m4a
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(Original post by xDave-)
It's pretty worrying that, in this day and age, he still wants religion to have an impact on politics.
I think it has more to do with the fact that he's shaken the foundation of the Tories by insisting on same-sex marriage.

The porn law was also a response to that.
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Hopple
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Surely these days we can argue the merits and drawbacks of policies without needing 'justifications' from books written by some guys in a foreign country ages ago? If it's good policy then you should have no trouble backing it up.
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infairverona
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(Original post by felamaslen)
Hmm... I'm not so sure. There are some good values in Christianity such as most of what Jesus said, but it is worrying how Christianity does not repudiate the disgusting Old testament values - at least, not directly.

The good thing is, we don't have to choose any ancient (or new) religion to base our laws on. We can base them on, guess what - reason!
Obviously no religion is without its flaws. I would just rather it was based on Christianity than say, Islam - IF it is to be based on religion at all. I would rather it wasn't.

Well yes but it's exceptionally naive to say our laws are based on 'reason' IMO.
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felamaslen
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(Original post by infairverona)
Obviously no religion is without its flaws. I would just rather it was based on Christianity than say, Islam - IF it is to be based on religion at all. I would rather it wasn't.

Well yes but it's exceptionally naive to say our laws are based on 'reason' IMO.
I would say our laws are based on reason when you look at it from a historical point of view. We don't burn witches, as they do in parts of Africa to this day, where law is not based on reason, and where they used to here, before laws were based on reason. We have legalised things like free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of sexuality and things like that, and banned slavery. All of these things were the result of good reasoning, I think.
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ChaoticButterfly
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(Original post by meenu89)
Just because he said what he said he doesn't demean any other faith/ faiths.
You forgot us atheists.



A state should be secular. I got nothing against Cameron being a christian (as long as he deosn't do anything I deem morally wrong in the name of said religion) but he can bugger off calling the UK a christian country.

But like I have said elsewhere for a country with a state religion the UK is surprisingly non religious.
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weirdnessandcoffee
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(Original post by Pete_91)
Christian ideals are vague and cover all manner of things that were ideals before Christianity came about. Most of the ten commandments (the ones that aren't about god and his vanity) are from religions and codes pre-Christianity. By the same logic the ideals that are espoused in the bible that are abhorrent are also Christian ideals, such as:

murdering homosexuals
selling your daughter into prostitution
condoning rape
condoning slavery
committing genocide

and so on.
Why do we frown on adultery so?
Why do we frown on stealing?


Hate to say it- why are there a lot of people still about who can't accept homosexuality?

Having these 'vague' Christian ideals have arguably built up our society. But I see your point quite well. Yet, it seems as if we have chosen certain ideals, populised as Christian nonetheless, to make up the 'moral' framework of this country.
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Gwilym101
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Its not inaccurate to say that two thirds of the country identify as Christian (~60%) although only about 30% say they attend church regularly and I don't particularly care what religion the PM follows, what I don't want is religion in politics. It never works out well.

I find it a little unsettling that the PM currently feels the need to keep bringing religion into it these past few weeks. Part of me thinks he might be trying to garner the approval of religious conservatives in the face of UKIP nipping at their heels for support from other conservative demographics. That's the only reason I can think of to keep going on about it, I don't see any other possible political pay off.

Of course my view might just be skewed because of the three main prime ministers I remember, Blair was a closet catholic so I understand why he didn't bring up religion a great deal, Brown wasn't prime minister long enough for it to be relavent and now we have Cameron.
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