To clear up right and left wing.

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demx9
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#1
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#1
I think a common thing people get confused on is defining left and right wing. You should always say if you're left/right in a economic or social sense.

For example you can be:

economic LW & social LW --> Liberal
economic LW & social RW --> National Socialist
economic RW & social LW --> Neo-Liberal
economic RW & social RW --> Crazy Authoritarian Libertarian
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Falcatas
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#2
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(Original post by demx9)
I think a common thing people get confused on is defining left and right wing. You should always say if you're left/right in a economic or social sense.

For example you can be:

economic LW & social LW --> Liberal
economic LW & social RW --> National Socialist
economic RW & social LW --> Neo-Liberal
economic RW & social RW --> Crazy Authoritarian Libertarian
It doesn't help when someone makes a post and suggests Authoritarianism and Libertarians are compatible.

Also describing someone as a Liberal doesn't tell much. Where would a classical Liberalism fit in this?

What made you think a Neo-Liberal being socially left wing? Neoliberalism is just about economics nothing about social side of things.

The economic and social distinction you have made however is probably the best way to describe things which is what that Politcal Compass thing uses. (The test itself is terrible is incredibly bias but the grid is good).
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demx9
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(Original post by Falcatas)
It doesn't help when someone makes a post and suggests Authoritarianism and Libertarians are compatible.

Also describing someone as a Liberal doesn't tell much. Where would a classical Liberalism fit in this?

What made you think a Neo-Liberal being socially left wing? Neoliberalism is just about economics nothing about social side of things.

The economic and social distinction you have made however is probably the best way to describe things which is what that Politcal Compass thing uses. (The test itself is terrible is incredibly bias but the grid is good).
by Liberal i mean modern lib http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

I agree Neo-Liberal is mostly economical tho.
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Falcatas
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(Original post by demx9)
by Liberal i mean modern lib http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

I agree Neo-Liberal is mostly economical tho.

That would be more "social liberal", which are just known as "Liberals" in America. In Britain we call them Guardian readers.
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Sunny_Smiles
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"social right wing"? "social left wing"?
whaaat? left and right are economic-specific terms
if you say someone's "socially right wing", how does that mean more authoritarian when "right wing" in terms of economics means LESS government?
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demx9
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
"social right wing"? "social left wing"?
whaaat? left and right are economic-specific terms
if you say someone's "socially right wing", how does that mean more authoritarian when "right wing" in terms of economics means LESS government?
Social right wing means Social Conservative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatism

Usually less gov. means less intervention in market.. but it could still be heavy in justice, police, military, etc.. Just look at the U.S.
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
Social right wing means Social Conservative http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_conservatism

Usually less gov. means less intervention in market.. but it could still be heavy in justice, police, military, etc.. Just look at the U.S.
but conservatism is only right wing with respect to economics, it is technically "left wing" (interventionist) with regards to civil liberties, right? seeing as left wing economically is interventionism
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demx9
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
but conservatism is only right wing with respect to economics, it is technically "left wing" (interventionist) with regards to civil liberties, right? seeing as left wing economically is interventionism
Lol, you are looking at the picture way too simply.. or maybe you're new to politics ?
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
Lol, you are looking at the picture way too simply.. or maybe you're new to politics ?
are you honestly trying to convince me that "socially left wing" means "less government"? that's ridiculous seeing as "left wing" is the opposite of that.
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demx9
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#10
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
are you honestly trying to convince me that "socially left wing" means "less government"? that's ridiculous seeing as "left wing" is the opposite of that.
socially left wing does not mean less gov. Seriously u did A level politcs and don't know these basics stuff..

I will say again..

social LW = Social Liberal, open views on gay marriage, drugs, individual liberties, open to immigration etc.

social RW = Social Conservative, against abortion, gays, in favor of strict justice system, strong government in regards to fighting crime etc.
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demx9
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#11
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
but conservatism is only right wing with respect to economics
Absolutely incorrect.
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
socially left wing does not mean less gov. Seriously u did A level politcs and don't know these basics stuff..

I will say again..

social LW = Social Liberal, open views on gay marriage, drugs, individual liberties, open to immigration etc.

social RW = Social Conservative, against abortion, gays, in favor of strict justice system, strong government in regards to fighting crime etc.
how on earth do you know I did politics? have you been spying on my posts or something?
and if you're going to use *consistent* principles, "socially LEFT WING" (not liberal) means more, consistent with the concept that "left wing", means more government intervention, not less. if you're using the word "liberal", that's different; "liberalism" means (in terms of the dictionary definition, not the modern adopted meaning) less government
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
Absolutely incorrect.
"right wing" in terms of government = less intervention
socially right wing = less intervention on a social level
2+2=4.
I'm right wing, does that mean I'm also a social conservative just on that basis?
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demx9
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
"liberalism" means (in terms of the dictionary definition, not the modern adopted meaning) less government
Wikipedia disagrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism


maybe you meant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

which is different
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
Wikipedia disagrees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism
"free and fair elections, civil rights, freedom of the press, freedom of religion,free trade, and private property"

free trade and private property = right wing.

"ideas:





wikipedia isn't with you, here...
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
maybe you meant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism

which is different
it's liberalism, but for economics
for more freedom in terms of economics
e.g. so "liberalism" means more freedom.
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demx9
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#17
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
it's liberalism, but for economics
for more freedom in terms of economics
e.g. so "liberalism" means more freedom.
Mm, the world is more complex than you're making it look.. you could be an economic liberal but be against the civil rights liberties -> Social Conservative.
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
Mm, the world is more complex than you're making it look.. you could be an economic liberal but be against the civil rights liberties -> Social Conservative.
I agree with the fact that social conservatism = less liberty
but conservatism is a particular type of right wing
not all right wing is conservatism
for example, a "libertarian" isn't a conservative
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demx9
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#19
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
I agree with the fact that social conservatism = less liberty
but conservatism is a particular type of right wing
not all right wing is conservatism
for example, a "libertarian" isn't a conservative
Well, what I was saying in the OP is that people should be more specific in expressing their views, as saying just left - right wing isn't enough
classic example: was Hitler left or right wing?
economically he was center left but socially far right wing.
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by demx9)
Well, what I was saying in the OP is that people should be more specific in expressing their views, as saying just left - right wing isn't enough
classic example: was Hitler left or right wing?
economically he was center left but socially far right wing.
the political spectrum isn't just right and left, it's north and south
hitler, for example, was "north-west" (the authoritarian left)
look:
Image
(well that's odd, this spectrum has him closer to the right than the left; the other one I saw had him slightly to the left)
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