Grads paying to work for free... Watch

Daftpunker
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First hand experience today of how bad its got.

A quick google and it seems like its been going on longer than I thought.

My company (that shall remain nameless but is in the fiancial industry) has just taken on 12 grads on a work experience 2 day a week (for 8 weeks) placement. They have all finished uni and all 22/23. A little digging and I have discovered three things.

1) The grads are paying my company £65 a week to come and work for free and experience the insustry.

2) The 12 were selected from 72 applicates.

3) There is nothing guarenteed at the end of this.

How an earth has it come to this?! I thought you did work experience when you were 14/15...not when you are a qualified person and worked your socks off and have spent £30-40000 getting there.

Sorry if there's stuff similar posted on here...just seen it first hand today in my own company and think its awful. I'm not proud that my company is doing this but then...as I discovered there are not just 12 people who are agreeing to do this...but also 60 people out there who wanted to do it as well.

Unreal...
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Genocidal
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If they want to do it then surely it's their choice?

It's the working world we live in today. People want experience, and if paying gets you into a prestigious company it might well be a great investment for them in the future. You also have to consider whether the company would let them in otherwise. If it was illegal these companies might not let young people in at all.
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Tbx
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
First hand experience today of how bad its got.

A quick google and it seems like its been going on longer than I thought.

My company (that shall remain nameless but is in the fiancial industry) has just taken on 12 grads on a work experience 2 day a week (for 8 weeks) placement. They have all finished uni and all 22/23. A little digging and I have discovered three things.

1) The grads are paying my company £65 a week to come and work for free and experience the insustry.

2) The 12 were selected from 72 applicates.

3) There is nothing guarenteed at the end of this.

How an earth has it come to this?! I thought you did work experience when you were 14/15...not when you are a qualified person and worked your socks off and have spent £30-40000 getting there.

Sorry if there's stuff similar posted on here...just seen it first hand today in my own company and think its awful. I'm not proud that my company is doing this but then...as I discovered there are not just 12 people who are agreeing to do this...but also 60 people out there who wanted to do it as well.

Unreal...
Supply and demand.
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Old_Simon
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The company probably gets a Govt grant too. Its a scam to keep unemployment figures low. It has been going on for years in certain industry sectors.

OT: A lot of commercial (airline) pilots are paying to fly now as well.
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Georgie_M
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
First hand experience today of how bad its got.

A quick google and it seems like its been going on longer than I thought.

My company (that shall remain nameless but is in the fiancial industry) has just taken on 12 grads on a work experience 2 day a week (for 8 weeks) placement. They have all finished uni and all 22/23. A little digging and I have discovered three things.

1) The grads are paying my company £65 a week to come and work for free and experience the insustry.

2) The 12 were selected from 72 applicates.

3) There is nothing guarenteed at the end of this.

How an earth has it come to this?! I thought you did work experience when you were 14/15...not when you are a qualified person and worked your socks off and have spent £30-40000 getting there.

Sorry if there's stuff similar posted on here...just seen it first hand today in my own company and think its awful. I'm not proud that my company is doing this but then...as I discovered there are not just 12 people who are agreeing to do this...but also 60 people out there who wanted to do it as well.

Unreal...
How are they paying them? What is the guise they have used for the payment? It must have been called something to make it sound like a legitimate expense.
i have mixed feelings about internships I personally think it is kind of win-win, the company gets an extra pair of hands (inexperienced hands) and the intern gets vital work experience. You may spend a good sum of money on your education by why would employers care? They prize experience most of all of course they would rather employ someone who has one idea of what they are doing rather than someone who has never worked in that field shock horror even with a degree!
however it puts individuals who can not afford to do this such as people from disadvantaged backgrounds, behind others and is certainly unfair.
so while I do not have a problem with internships (I have volunteered, completed placements with college and work experience with uni to further my career prospects, it's pretty normal and expected now-a-days) I do think it is odd that they are expected to pay the company. Why does a large company even care about £65pw? That should be banned.
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Daftpunker
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If they want to do it then surely it's their choice?

It's the working world we live in today. People want experience, and if paying gets you into a prestigious company it might well be a great investment for them in the future. You also have to consider whether the company would let them in otherwise. If it was illegal these companies might not let young people in at all.
I'm fairly sure they don't "want" to...more its either that or sitting on your iq at home and working your way through Breaking Bad.

"Great investment for the future"

I'm sure they were told uni was this...now they have to make another great investment...then maybe a masters...then many another intership.

How many "Great investments" more do young people have to make before they are either so badly in debt they can't make anymore.

Why arn't the education system and institutions highlighting to young people even when you have graduated they maybe more investment, more training, more giving up your time for free until you might "maybe" find employment in your industry.
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Daftpunker
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"Why does a large company even care about £65pw? That should be banned."

Actually just put this to my boss who has to look after 2 of them later today. His answer.

1) The company has to look after its overheads. By giving our time to these newly qualified grads we have less time to spend with our clients who pay us.

2) They've spent a tens of thousands to get where they are to an educational insitution. We are asking for 3 figures for 8 weeks - that's one term at uni which costs 3 grand.

It's a fair point I suppose. I'm more appalled by the way young people our being treated now then my own company I suppose. If young people our prepared to do it and the scheme had 8 times more applications then placements...why not charge for it. As my boss says its a minisule figure compared to what they paid their uni and we are probably giving them far more of our individual attention then a uni would.
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MrSupernova
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
"Why does a large company even care about £65pw? That should be banned."

Actually just put this to my boss who has to look after 2 of them later today. His answer.

1) The company has to look after its overheads. By giving our time to these newly qualified grads we have less time to spend with our clients who pay us.

2) They've spent a tens of thousands to get where they are to an educational insitution. We are asking for 3 figures for 8 weeks - that's one term at uni which costs 3 grand.

It's a fair point I suppose. I'm more appalled by the way young people our being treated now then my own company I suppose. If young people our prepared to do it and the scheme had 8 times more applications then placements...why not charge for it. As my boss says its a minisule figure compared to what they paid their uni and we are probably giving them far more of our individual attention then a uni would.
72 divided by 12 is 6. Not 8...
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Daftpunker
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72 divided by 12 is 6. Not 8...
Apologies. 6 times more applicants than placements.
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Old_Simon
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Charging monies for "employment" used to be illegal.
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1drowssap
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
First hand experience today of how bad its got.

A quick google and it seems like its been going on longer than I thought.

My company (that shall remain nameless but is in the fiancial industry) has just taken on 12 grads on a work experience 2 day a week (for 8 weeks) placement. They have all finished uni and all 22/23. A little digging and I have discovered three things.
The Financial industry is cutthroat, especially if you want to join big banks. If you don't have A*s at A levels and a first from oxbridge, you're practically screwed(at least that is what I'm constantly told). Even then, its not enough, work experience may be used to filter out applicants, which invariably creates a high demand for internships. That's probably why banks/financial companies can charge for internships.
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Miel Purple
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If it's not illegal, what's the problem? They applied to it, they're desperate for the experience.
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Old_Simon
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(Original post by Miel Purple)
If it's not illegal, what's the problem? They applied to it, they're desperate for the experience.

Where this type of thing becomes unsustainable is when very few of them kept on. Hence they need to do another one. Over a year or two they might do many months in this type of "work". The subtext of this type of arrangement is that it suits wealthy "middle class" folk from well off families.

Is this really how we want to treat our best and brightest ?
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Georgie_M
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
"Why does a large company even care about £65pw? That should be banned."

Actually just put this to my boss who has to look after 2 of them later today. His answer.

1) The company has to look after its overheads. By giving our time to these newly qualified grads we have less time to spend with our clients who pay us.

2) They've spent a tens of thousands to get where they are to an educational insitution. We are asking for 3 figures for 8 weeks - that's one term at uni which costs 3 grand.

It's a fair point I suppose. I'm more appalled by the way young people our being treated now then my own company I suppose. If young people our prepared to do it and the scheme had 8 times more applications then placements...why not charge for it. As my boss says its a minisule figure compared to what they paid their uni and we are probably giving them far more of our individual attention then a uni would.
Oh yes obviously aware of the arguments, kind of the same as the reasons interns don't get paid, comparing it to uni is ridiculous because individuals receive loans and grants in order to attend university. If you have to work in paid employment at min wage that would be over a days wages plus you are losing two days.
i kind of meant the question not from the individuals perspective (ie is the experience worth it) but more does the company need the money? The money does not mean much to the company but would be completely prohibitive to many individuals particularly those without parental support. Obviously the financial sector doesn't have any moral obligations to individuals however I disagree with it from a humanist perspective and as someone who believes in social equality.
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Miel Purple
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(Original post by Old_Simon)
Where this type of thing becomes unsustainable is when very few of them kept on. Hence they need to do another one. Over a year or two they might do many months in this type of "work". The subtext of this type of arrangement is that it suits wealthy "middle class" folk from well off families.

Is this really how we want to treat our best and brightest ?
But if there is a demand for it, what can they do?

You're right, it just widens the gap between middle class and lower class.
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Daftpunker
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(Original post by Georgie_M)
Oh yes obviously aware of the arguments, kind of the same as the reasons interns don't get paid, comparing it to uni is ridiculous because individuals receive loans and grants in order to attend university. If you have to work in paid employment at min wage that would be over a days wages plus you are losing two days.
i kind of meant the question not from the individuals perspective (ie is the experience worth it) but more does the company need the money? The money does not mean much to the company but would be completely prohibitive to many individuals particularly those without parental support. Obviously the financial sector doesn't have any moral obligations to individuals however I disagree with it from a humanist perspective and as someone who believes in social equality.
You wouldn't believe how grasping it is. Very little is given for free away at the moment. For example - printing Investment documents used to be within the deal. Its now all online. Therefore if you want hard copies...you need to pay £3 per document. 100 x 3 = £300.

See Mr Supernova I have improved.

I suppose the counter argument is there are people (not me) in the company I know that can charge £100-£500 an hour for their time. They are having to give up some of their time to puppy walk and show the ropes to new grads. They can then put on their performance review that they did this and "gave something back" to the community etc.

They then get a better bonus...I suppose the grads fees contribute to that bonus.

If it's not illegal, what's the problem? They applied to it, they're desperate for the experience.
My problem is that these grads were most probably sold a message by the government/their parents/their university/their lecturers etc that their degree would have been "enough". Give up this time now and you will be rewarded with a grad role.

Its still not enough. As said - I happen to know my company is NOT actively recruiting at the moment. The applicants have been told crystal clear - their is no garenteed role at the end of this. At the very best - its something you can put on your CV and maybe a contact if something comes up. Old_Simon has it spot on for me.

When is the education system going to start being honest and transparent with our young people and not just take them on just to boost their pockets and Secondry Schools leaflets "90% of our leavers go on to uni". Degrees are still being sold as a golden ticket and I know young people (see past threads) that are celebrating just getting into any uni and seem to think they are set for life.

I have a degree but work a low grade junior corporate sales role that I got by meeting the right person. My degree I suppose was relevant to me being offered the role but it certainly wasn't pivotal. My biggest regret is I didn't start looking to meet the right person when I was 18.

I feel deeply for these young people in the office at the moment and intend to probe what is going on further when they come over to our team for their "experience".
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helpmekid
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
You wouldn't believe how grasping it is. Very little is given for free away at the moment. For example - printing Investment documents used to be within the deal. Its now all online. Therefore if you want hard copies...you need to pay £3 per document. 100 x 3o our team for their "experience".
Sad and true

I remember in Collage, our teachers used to "bring people in" just to tell us and give presentations on why you SHOULD go Uni and get a degree, and that by going you will receive "free grants" and if you get a degree your salary at ages 30-40 would be doubled to people that age Without a Degree. Shocking really

and This is still happening
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Daftpunker
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Sad and true

I remember in Collage, our teachers used to "bring people in" just to tell us and give presentations on why you SHOULD go Uni and get a degree, and that by going you will receive "free grants" and if you get a degree your salary at ages 30-40 would be doubled to people that age Without a Degree. Shocking really

and This is still happening
Just back from lunch and we were talking about this.

One of my more experienced colleagues said its really sad how the industry has gone. You can bet that most if not everyone of those 12 would screw each other left, right and centre for a job with the company.

When he started you made it with people

Now you make it in spite of people...

I feel unis our making their money and filling their quotas IN SPITE of their pupils.

They are not interested in them and don't care about them.
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helpmekid
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(Original post by Daftpunker)
Just back from lunch and we were talking about this.

One of my more experienced colleagues said its really sad how the industry has gone. You can bet that most if not everyone of those 12 would screw each other left, right and centre for a job with the company.

When he started you made it with people

Now you make it in spite of people...

I feel unis our making their money and filling their quotas IN SPITE of their pupils.

They are not interested in them and don't care about them.
Exactly!

Unis just dont care anymore

The more sheep they trap the more £9ks they get per sheep!!!

They even sometimes from my Uni send UNI Students to go talk to and convince local collage and 6th formers to come and study at XXX Uni!!!

Its so sad and the worst part is, young children future lives are being ruined!! they are simply being pushed to uni, and end up doing any random course!
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Joinedup
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Are they actually paying the firm they're placed at or is payment going to a middleman?
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