This discussion is closed.
CamSPSer
Badges: 0
Rep:
?
#61
Report 15 years ago
#61
sorry, but a lot of this is crap - did you even bother to read my second post?
yes i did

There a lot of people here on these boards who want to apply to US unis and don't know how. These sorts of misleading, uninformed comments will really put them off which is unfair.
im not against american universities, i wont hold it against you but uve missed my posts on the benefits of stanford and cambridge and was fairly even handed in both. im not uninformed on the subject, having debated applying (and then decided not to) for american universities. if i have been misleading i apologise, but i also think that you have been as well, oxbridge are looking for well rounded people who are able to get 3 As despite taking part in a lot of extra curricular activities, they do not want people who just work, hence the fact that they lay on a lot of these activities at the university with good music and drama and rowing. however as primarily academic institutions they will not let you in if you arent extremely clever - the coaches of the boat race team say they would love to import rowers in to doss degrees but there arent any. as for not getting a broad education there are subjects that offer this - PPE and natural sciences, ok so not as broad as a liberal arts degree but as you have specalised more at a-level than you have in america i think its only logical that you continue to specalise at uni. i dont think the funding gap will continue to increase, admittedly a good few people have been attracted to america becuase of better pay but i think in the next few years that will start to change. particulary as they are starting to copy the american system of bugging alumi to donate lots of money and the college system will probably work as an advantage in this.

Dealing with ur dealing of my comments in turn:

1. What?? HYP if you can afford it? Why? What the hell has your future career got to do with this? I would understand aif you pointed out expensive tutoring can give an applicant an advantage, but to say you only go to HYP if you can afford it is just plain wrong. What you do afterwards makes no difference, what you want to do there makes no difference (unlike in the UK, look at compeition for courses such as veterinary science and compare them to a course like ASNAC).
vetinary science is a vocational course as in only people who want to become vets would really want to do it, same with medicine. thats not specific to the UK. if your going into a career that doesnt pay well and you cant get a scholarship to HYP you dont go, as you will never be able to pay off all those debts that you get, look at britain where people are talking about an intolerable debt load on 3,000 a year or even at the current stage where there its only 1,125 a year! the fact of the matter is you might want to go to a university that is cheaper becuas you will have smaller more managable debts


2. 'some oxbridge candidates will actaully have been given money' - and US students haven't? I have no doubt that total aid is tenfold in the US than it is here, and that hardship funds and bursaries (excluding aid in the conventinal sense) dwarfs anything offered here. Meals and accomodation is subsidised in the US as well, that much should be obvious.
in your original post you stated "Ask an Oxbirdge graduate if they have ever given money to the university, the asnwer will almost always be no." i wasnt denying that HYP give a lot out, i was just taking up the point that oxbridge do give out a lot more than you think, admittedly on a smaller scale to home students but there is a lot there from hardship funds, travel bursaries etc etc, they just arent as well known about or needed. there are many scholarships for oxbridge, mainly for foreign students (though choral and organ scholarships can be worth an amount) that are available.

3. 'while it may be needs blind it certainly isnt blind to rich people' - what on earth does that mean? The concept of need-blind admission is terrific, and I don't know how on earth you could argue against that. It's simply good morals and good economics.
well if you're not rich ok your not discriminated against, yet if your extremely rich then you can buy yourself a place in the university. this does not happen (often) in UK with there being a huge scandal a few years ago when, I believe, Pembroke (Oxford) accepted 800,000 to accept someone's son for law.

4. True. So what? US universitie are doing it now, and they've been doing it for longer. They've found innocative, sensible and excellent ways of raising funds. This sort of business acumen it toally lacking from educational establishments in this country and it will hold them back for yeras to come - the headstart is signifcant.
There is no need for it now as you only have to pay £1,125 a year compared to the tens of thousands for American universities, and even then only 40% of people pay this amount and the government meets the rest. there is no need for oxford to offer too much aid as a lot is offered by the government due to the nature of the welfare state which america doesnt have

5. This one's a stupid point - should Prince Charles have been let into Trinity, Cam? I hardly think youre in a position to decide whether he should have got in or not
hehe i knew you might say that, members of the royal family who went to oxbridge may or may not have been allowed in on their own merits (he's obviously an intelligent man) but there is no way that his sons could get in today, especially the younger one. george w. bush, however was not intelligent or at least didnt work very hard and probably didnt deserve his place. the difference between england and america is that you can still get in on the basis of your family having gone to HYP


if american universities are what you want to do then go for it and good luck. i dont doubt that for some people they will have a brilliant time
0
shiny
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#62
Report 15 years ago
#62
(Original post by sjoshi64)
2. 'some oxbridge candidates will actaully have been given money' - and US students haven't? I have no doubt that total aid is tenfold in the US than it is here, and that hardship funds and bursaries (excluding aid in the conventinal sense) dwarfs anything offered here. Meals and accomodation is subsidised in the US as well, that much should be obvious.
---
Aid is tenfold greater than in the UK because costs are 10x greater than the UK at HYP?!
0
garglingopher
Badges: 0
#63
Report 15 years ago
#63
(Original post by DrSoySauce)
I might be going to a liberal arts college next year. They're much smaller that universities, and most of them have only undergraduates, so no people studying for masters or doctorates. They're better in some ways because the classes are smaller, so you'll get more attention, you'll actually be taught by professors and not graduate students, and the atmospheres are much more supportive. (God, I sound like the promotional leaflet). Anyway, the kind of education you'll get in at least some of them (like Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, if you're a girl Wellesley) is going to be on the same level as what you'd get in the Ivies.

But it really depends what you're looking for....
Nice one there! I'm at Yale at the moment, but at the undergraduate level, Amherst, Williams and Swarthmore offer no worse education, esp. in terms of class size, although if you desire to undertake good research as an undergraduate, big univs tend to have better facilities and faculty members to instruct you. However, I ALWAYS recommend people to consider liberal arts colleges. They are equally reputable compared to big universities too, at least with in the US.
0
garglingopher
Badges: 0
#64
Report 15 years ago
#64
(Original post by sjoshi64)
I applied to 4 Ivy League universities this year, sending my applications off December 2003. I found out two weeks ago that Princeton and Yale rejected me, Harvard waitlisted me and Brown accepted me.

I applied to the usual 6 here in the UK, and was accepted at Cambridge. I don't think that 'proves' anything about which is better, but there is an intense amount of competition in the US and although you can point out the applicant pools are very different (Cambridge's pool is far smaller, though more self-selecting given people can't 'waste' a UCAS slot on Oxbridge if they're not serious about it), the US unis get many many more applicants.

The acceptance rate at the top Ivies (Yale's at least) is around 10-11% - HYP is the conventionally used acronym for Harvard-Yale-Princeton, just as we have Oxbridge.

However when comparing you have to bear in mind the universties here and in the US are looking for different types of people - the Ivies seem to be looking for very well rounded people, and academics, although very important, will NOT get you in by themselves. In the UK, Oxbridge included, academics alone WILL get you in and it doesn't matter how your personality is. Diversity of character isn't exactly on the mind of the Oxbrridge admissions directors. If you have an acadmic passion from this age, I sitll think you might be better off in the UK because the whole point if a US liberal arts education is that you study other stuff besides a concentration. This means if you don;t know what you want to do in life yet, but you want to get a broad education the US is by far the best place to do this. The two systems are so different that comparisons are difficult. However give it a while, let the funding gap increase, let Oxbridge admissions policies stay the same, and soon the US will dominate in all areas.

Btw, I dont think anyone can complain about money in the US - if you can't afford to go and you are clever and rounded enough to get in and you are accepted, the universities will make sure you go. You CAN afford it if you need to be able to, and furthermore, application is usually need-blind and need-based - that means the person who decided whether you get in doesnt care how much money you need. One unfortunate byproduct of this excellent system is a huge amount of funds are needed, obtained through charging those who CAN afford the fees good money, and letting legacies in to keep the donations coming. Ask an Oxbirdge graduate if they have ever given money to the university, the asnwer will almost always be no. Ask the same of an Ivy Leage graduate and you wil find an amazing amount give in a regular basis which goes some way to explaining how they achieve this huge amount of aid. Whatever you call it, its not unfair - I'd like to see UK universities claim they can give out this sort of aid, then they can complain about egalitarianism.
YET ANOTHER GREAT POST WITH GOOD FACTS AND ADVICE! - from a Yalie
0
X
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Did you vote in the 2019 general election?

Yes (278)
48.01%
No (66)
11.4%
I'm not old enough (235)
40.59%

Watched Threads

View All