Can we live forever?

I was thinking about the philosophy of consciousness specifically monism and dualism, and how we could extend our lives or maybe forever.

If MONISM is true which I think is more reasonable than DUALISM then that means our mind and our body is one and with things like transhumanism we could replace all the biological parts but if we touch the brain we're gone because our mind would be dead along with that last part of our biological body that was replaced, so I reason that the best transhumanism can do is give us the ability to free our minds from our body but not the brain, meaning we could live for longer but not forever because of the biological clock of the brain.

And to back up my claim about MONISM and the limitation of the biological clock I also reasoned that is you did free your mind from your body but kept the brain and did an experiment where you replace sections of the brain with transhumanism, then your mind would die with the last piece of the brain you replaced and no1 would be any any the wiser lol!

And to back up my claim that MONISM is more reasonable than DUALISM you could probably disprove dualism by instead of doing transfer by dieing and transfer consciousness into a surrogate bionic body and find you self not waking up and dieing with you old body and no1 would be any the wiser, a CLEANER way would be to attack dualism from the perspective of copy not transfer and copy your consciousness and then if the surrogate with your consciousness doesn't share a consciousness with you (multiple consciousness) then DUALISM is false.

But I found a way we could live forever, if you do the brain sections experiment again but with biological pieces you wouldn't die with the last piece of the brain you replaced because you would constantly fuse biologically and consciousnessly(lol) with the new pieces of the brain added.

My conclusion is (transhumanism + monism/keep part of the brain ALIVE and swap out parts of the brain when they get old = live forever). This is crazy **** I think, but what do you think lol?

Reply 1

Ripper Phoenix

17

know what.. maybe we think alike or what but i have this theory that life was never meant to be the way it is now! All the cars the buildings etc..anything to do with technology or the crisps that we eat and all processed foods.. i believe that if we lived the life when the human life came into existence..we would live almost for eternity...

i get this feeling that we are meant to eat stuff thats natural..like we have pasta and cheese which are all processed but we are supposed to eat whats there..not make stuff out of what we are given naturally such as fruits and veggies.. maybe then we would live for eternity..no diseases due to pollution

its a really weird feeling and maybe no one would understand me but thats the way it is.. i can't be more specific because i really can't explain that feeeling..

Reply 2

Stinkum

3

This is so messed up. I don't even.

Reply 3

Kinkerz

15

Original post by Paras Agarwal

know what.. maybe we think alike or what but i have this theory that life was never meant to be the way it is now! All the cars the buildings etc..anything to do with technology or the crisps that we eat and all processed foods.. i believe that if we lived the life when the human life came into existence..we would live almost for eternity...

i get this feeling that we are meant to eat stuff thats natural..like we have pasta and cheese which are all processed but we are supposed to eat whats there..not make stuff out of what we are given naturally such as fruits and veggies.. maybe then we would live for eternity..no diseases due to pollution

its a really weird feeling and maybe no one would understand me but thats the way it is.. i can't be more specific because i really can't explain that feeeling..

The first humans did eat and behave like that. No technology, natural food, etc. They all died and a lot sooner than our generation of cars, TVs and processed chicken will.

Reply 4

scrotgrot

16

Yes, see quantum immortality. But since we were all able to miss out on the first 13bn years of the universe I hold out hope that we can die anyway (or at minimum go so unconscious we have infinitesimal awareness) and then be reincarnated right at the end as a Boltzmann brain to check the universe is still there and observe what's been going on in our absence. Indeed if you want to get super freaky it may be that we are fated to live out the same life over and over again via this mechanism, or else we experience the universe once, or infinite times, as every single consciousness that exists in it. Either way, as far as I can see, when we get to the end of the universe we know from an information-theoretic perspective everything that ever happened in it, the result of every quantum collapse, which is functionally equivalent to being an extra-universe observer outside of time, or in shorthand, God.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 5

PricklyPorcupine

13

No, we should die at a natural age. Personally, I would hate to be alive at 100 or even 90 because I would be so weak and my mind would be different, I wouldn't be able to think properly.

Reply 6

husawyers

OP

LOL! I agree, I got pretty erked out when scientists started messing around and took a monkey brain and put it into another body backing up a possible MONISM style consciousness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1-YFbAifA&t=5m12s

Reply 7

husawyers

OP

Original post by Paras Agarwal

know what.. maybe we think alike or what but i have this theory that life was never meant to be the way it is now! All the cars the buildings etc..anything to do with technology or the crisps that we eat and all processed foods.. i believe that if we lived the life when the human life came into existence..we would live almost for eternity...

i get this feeling that we are meant to eat stuff thats natural..like we have pasta and cheese which are all processed but we are supposed to eat whats there..not make stuff out of what we are given naturally such as fruits and veggies.. maybe then we would live for eternity..no diseases due to pollution

its a really weird feeling and maybe no one would understand me but thats the way it is.. i can't be more specific because i really can't explain that feeeling..

Hmm I think I see what you mean there that man living more inline with nature would extend our lifes and decrease the chances of disease but similar to what Kinkerz said, you have to remember that medicine more in a modern respect helped us extend our lifes and fight in this 'battle against the microbes'. In respect to that I've personally came to believe in both where our future depends on science and sustainability (environmentalism), but don't wanna get into politics lol.

Reply 8

husawyers

OP

Original post by scrotgrot

Yes, see quantum immortality. But since we were all able to miss out on the first 13bn years of the universe I hold out hope that we can die anyway (or at minimum go so unconscious we have infinitesimal awareness) and then be reincarnated right at the end as a Boltzmann brain to check the universe is still there and observe what's been going on in our absence. Indeed if you want to get super freaky it may be that we are fated to live out the same life over and over again via this mechanism, or else we experience the universe once, or infinite times, as every single consciousness that exists in it. Either way, as far as I can see, when we get to the end of the universe we know from an information-theoretic perspective everything that ever happened in it, the result of every quantum collapse, which is functionally equivalent to being an extra-universe observer outside of time, or in shorthand, God.

Damn thanks I'll have to check that concept out, very interesting view on death was that last part you mentioned the Big Squeeze?

Reply 9

scrotgrot

16

Original post by husawyers

Damn thanks I'll have to check that concept out, very interesting view on death was that last part you mentioned the Big Squeeze?

Do so at your peril, it's inestimably depressing... Big Squeeze, not sure what that is but it's more the idea that on the timescales involved **** will repeat itself spontaneously out of heat death due to quantum fluctuations, not sure if it would be more likely to repeat at the big bang or earth-forming or consciousness-having scales or whether you would have to be the exact same as before, in which case I guess an isolated Boltzmann brain is most likely. Of course the law of averages would say, if the first scenario is true, we are currently in nothing more or less than one of those quantum fluctuating states ourselves.

On the whole fingers crossed we've got gravity wrong and heading for a Big Crunch scenario. The immortal craves only oblivion.

There's also the question of whether time actually meaningfully/experientially passes in heat death if you have no particle interactions going on to measure change. It depends I guess how big your tight, infinitely improbable little bubble of low entropy around your disembodied conscious awareness is. Do you need to have an internal clock to be sufficiently aware if there's absolutely nothing actually going on around you? It presents questions about just what level of consciousness counts and whether it has any meaning without any sensory input.

(edited 10 years ago)

Reply 10

husawyers

OP

Original post by PricklyPorcupine

No, we should die at a natural age. Personally, I would hate to be alive at 100 or even 90 because I would be so weak and my mind would be different, I wouldn't be able to think properly.

Fair play yeah I agree in part because of the limitations of the biological clock, have you considered that by 2050/2100 our science on the effects of aging would be so great that we could be 100 and feel great or even live longer which I realize has ethical/philosophical implications hehe? e.g. Japan exeskeleton for the old/disabled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ysb-Oko3Bg, 'aging the number 1 killer': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iYpxRXlboQ

Reply 11

thisistheend

2

I'll tell you the answer in 2045.

Reply 12

husawyers

OP

Original post by thisistheend

I'll tell you the answer in 2045.

Is that a reference to the population reaching 9 billion lol?

Reply 13

thisistheend

2

Original post by husawyers

Is that a reference to the population reaching 9 billion lol?

You obviously didn't get it.

Google "2045 singularity" / "2045 initiative"

In short, no.

Original post by thisistheend

You obviously didn't get it.

Google "2045 singularity" / "2045 initiative"

Under my quantum immortality scenario that's about when we'll get effectively infinite life-extending technologies, conveniently before the end of yours and my lifetimes, because we're all literally that special age in our own universe. There are also even more crackpot "chosen 144,000" theories that say we are the only people in the history of the world to ever have been truly conscious and you, me and everyone else might well be a distributed consciousness that will share this universe till the end, which would be an honour I'm sure :smile:

Time will tell!

Reply 16

husawyers

OP

Original post by thisistheend

You obviously didn't get it.

Google "2045 singularity" / "2045 initiative"

Oh the singularity I already know of this, it makes these kind of things possible for sure. My bad, between the topic in relation to the current global issues and your username I misinterpret badly lol!

Reply 17

skunkboy

11

Really, we always live forever. We just don't recognize it. There is actually no life. We are the combination of two groups of elements ,namely, the physical group and the nonphysical one.

After death, the two groups are separated. The physical are still governed by the rules of physics or chemistry. But the nonphysical are still controled by the force of cravings. The group(in various forms such as a ghost or a soul) will keep seeking the physical they are attached to.

Who creates the two groups? God? No. Like energy,they always exist. No Creator or Destroyer.
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Reply 18

Plantagenet Crown

20

In theory yes, quantum immortality and the illusory nature of time means that when you die, your consciousness will be able to experience everything, past, present and future, at once.

(edited 10 years ago)

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