Complicated friend

Long story so sorry in advance for the waffle!

Now, this friend is like, one of my closest friend who's been there for me a dozen times. But I neglected him cus I failed to balance time properly when I got into a relationship - that was entirely my fault. He approached me many times and I tried to balance time better, but I didn't do too well. Then during a rough patch in my relationship, he and my other friends were really there for me. Since then I've actively sought them out again as I realised they're such precious friends. Now here comes the problem - I've texted him many times and he never once replies, he was never in his room, and I'd ring him and he wouldn't pick up. But then he rang me to ask how my interview went, during his date with his gf, so he obviously cares. Now it's the hols and at first I've tried to msn him and he never really replies and when he does, he disappears really soon. Then in group conversations his jokes are becoming nastier and nastier - his usual humour is to insult people anyway, so I'm used to it, and I take it well and usually just laugh it off. But increasingly his jokes are becoming so acidic, out of context and uncalled for. Like the other night - he just came out and said as a comment to an already started conversation "Did you know you're a t**t?" - and "You're a pot of sh*t after a pot of Chinese" (me being Chinese, but we do casual racist jokes to each other sometimes and they're harmless, but this one was right at the start of the convo - no, how're you, no, hi - just insults.)

I've talked to him and apologised a million times for neglecting him and I've actively tried to right that properly now. I've told him I really want him back as my friend and I do and I know he is a brilliant friend and he's been there for me so much in the past. He tells me "I'll forgive you when you change", "I don't forgive easily", "You've gotta change." We also disagree on religion (I'm Christian, he's Sikh) and he blames me for annoying people when they are the ones who bring the topic up, in the hope to wind me up. Then he and I had a huge conversation about it and he kept calling me an idiot, blinded, someone who doesn't have a clue as to what I'm on about. Regardless of whether you may think that of a Christian - such insults are uncalled for when I never once insulted him. I simply fought for my faith like anyone would. And in terms of religion, he called me weak for presenting to him someone who knows the Bible better than I do cus I'm not "arguing for myself" - it was then that I realised he just wants to argue and he doesn't care about the facts, which shows he completely disrespects my beliefs.

Now, my thoughts are these. Surely friendships aren't conditional? I've even considered changing myself just to be his friend and I'm thinking - I should not have to do this! He's made me feel like crap with his insults that he passes off as jokes and I no longer know whether they're jokes or real insults, when I tell him I tried to get back in contact but you never texted back or picked up your phone, he said "Then get the hint" - just to later say "You're just a friend who needs guidence and I want to re-bond" (nevermind that he is patronising - main point is, he's contradictory.) And I just don't know if I should keep trying, keep caring? I don't know if he's still my friend. I don't know if I even want to be his friend anymore. But he has been such an amazing friend and he's been there for me so many times and he's not a person who trusts easily and I had let him down cus I neglected him, and he was rather offended that I was worried about his health due to excessive drinking (first years at uni). So now I don't know. What should I do? I don't deny that it is my fault to start off with, but what more can I do except for apologise and try and keep in contact? When I've suggested let's meet up, he either ignores me or he's said "I'd rather die than to see you." But having said that, he texted me to wish me a happy birthday on the day. Either he remembered or he saw it on facebook but that's besides the point - point is he showed that he cares. But how can he care when all he does is insult me and laugh about it?

He's been such an amazing friend over the year - but now he seems unwilling to be my friend again and just reacts acidically to my attempts at being friends again, while telling me he does want to be friends, then saying things that really hurt me. And when he's angry and doesn't agree with me, especially when it comes to religion, he'd threaten me - not any actual threats but he would say "You better watch out." or "You better watch what you say" or "You made a huge mistake in doing such and such" - like, strange after a disagreement. But then on the night when I really needed someone, during uni, he offered to let me sleep on his bed while he slept on the floor of his own room, just so I had someone to be with me that night. I don't understand.

What should I do? :frown:

Reply 1

Anonymous #2

I had a friend like you, i hate people that ditch their friends for a guy or girl. my good friend did this to me and my own cuzzin and it took me 3 yrs to forgive her and for my friend a yr later i aint talkin to her and we even got into a cat fight. i did so much for them n never ditched them for nothin, so why do i need anyone like that in my life......and why does ur friend??

Reply 2

Anonymous #1

OP

Anonymous

I had a friend like you, i hate people that ditch their friends for a guy or girl. my good friend did this to me and my own cuzzin and it took me 3 yrs to forgive her and for my friend a yr later i aint talkin to her and we even got into a cat fight. i did so much for them n never ditched them for nothin, so why do i need anyone like that in my life......and why does ur friend??

Well I've been there for him a million times too. I'd sit through the night just listening to him pour out his heart and I'd sit in silence if that's what he needs, and I'd be bouncy and bubbly if that's what he needs. I've never failed to cheer him up as yet. So I didn't hang out as much as with - but I was still there for him.

Surely friends are meant to forgive each other? So what was I meant to have done when I pursued his friendship while he constantly told me to f**k off, before we were even friends? Before we even knew each other, I was there for him and all he ever did was swear at me, until he realised I was a friend worth having. Everyone's allowed one mistake, right?

But perhaps he feels the same way as you do. Perhaps it's understandable. But I'd unintentionally hurt him - he's intentionally hurting me. My question right now is not whether it was my fault to start off with - I know it's my fault - my question is, is it worth fighting for his friendship?

And as for your friend - did she try to pursue your friendship again? Did she ever apologise and try to be friends again? I don't understand because many friends have neglected me a million times - I've been there for them and they've neglected me and ditched me, and each time I've been the one to pursue their friendship even though they're the ones to ditch me. I've forgiven them. I just don't understand, if we're such good friends, then surely it's something worth saving as opposed to trying to hurt me now that I've realised my mistake?

Reply 3

Anonymous #1

OP

And I'd like to clarify that I had my reasons for not hanging out with them. Reason being - I don't drink. And a lot of the group gatherings, they're simply insanely drunk and it is boring for me. No one can hold up a half-decent conversation or understand me, for that matter. Or we'd be at the bar and everyone's laughing at some sex joke that I simply find rude. So given that, or go with my bf who also does not enjoy this kind of stuff - I mean, which one would most people go for? I tried - I really tried to hang out with them. I really really tried. But I am insanely bored cus no one is sober. And this friend - this particular one I'm on about - gets offended because I don't like them getting so insanely drunk cus I'm worried - I am genuinely concerned for his health. At one point he downed 6 pints and 6 shots and he was stone sober - that was how much he drinks to get his tolerance that high!

I really tried to hang out with them. But every time they're drunk. They say they don't have to be drunk but almost every time they always are. Why I do leave half way through and not stay through the night? Because no one can even understand me they're that drunk - in the face of that, would I rather hang out with my sober bf who also hates this kinda stuff? Yes! I tried. I really tried - I even went out clubbing with them and I hate clubbing. I left early because they wanted to stay til 3am and I was insanely bored by 1:30am, which isn't too early anyway.

I don't know - I just don't know what to do.

Reply 4

Sazarina88

11

IMO, he doesn't sound like a real friend anymore. The way that you've described that he treats you just isn't acceptable. Perhaps he is feeling angry at you for not spending as much time with him but surely that's something he should get over?

I would advise you to talk to him but it sounds like you would probably end up arguing. Sorry if I've missed this when I was reading but do you have any mutual friends? Perhaps you could talk to them and see if they know anything.

It really is your decision as to what you do. We don't know you or your friend - if we heard his side of the story things may be different but I wouldn't give up your friendship if you feel that it can be saved.

Good luck,
Sarah xx

Reply 5

Phonicsdude

19

He sounds like a moron. The urge to procreate is stronger than the urge to talk about football.

Reply 6

danni_bella

17

Sazarina88

IMO, he doesn't sound like a real friend anymore. The way that you've described that he treats you just isn't acceptable. Perhaps he is feeling angry at you for not spending as much time with him but surely that's something he should get over?

I would advise you to talk to him but it sounds like you would probably end up arguing. Sorry if I've missed this when I was reading but do you have any mutual friends? Perhaps you could talk to them and see if they know anything.

It really is your decision as to what you do. We don't know you or your friend - if we heard his side of the story things may be different but I wouldn't give up your friendship if you feel that it can be saved.

Good luck,
Sarah xx

:dito: Yep, I agree with Sarah's post :cool:

Reply 7

Sazarina88

11

danni_bella

:dito: Yep, I agree with Sarah's post :cool:

Reply 8

theonehitwonder

2

I've had mates ditch me because of girls or girlfriends. It's ****ing pathetic. :mad:

Reply 9

Anonymous #1

OP

Sazarina88

IMO, he doesn't sound like a real friend anymore. The way that you've described that he treats you just isn't acceptable. Perhaps he is feeling angry at you for not spending as much time with him but surely that's something he should get over?

I would advise you to talk to him but it sounds like you would probably end up arguing. Sorry if I've missed this when I was reading but do you have any mutual friends? Perhaps you could talk to them and see if they know anything.

It really is your decision as to what you do. We don't know you or your friend - if we heard his side of the story things may be different but I wouldn't give up your friendship if you feel that it can be saved.

Good luck,
Sarah xx

His side of the story... Ok, I think his side of the story would be something like this: I never hang out anymore and I leave right at the start of the party (because they're all insanely drunk and I'm stone sober, so I choose to go with my bf instead cus it's simply boring watching drunk people being drunk - surely that's actually logical??) - and my friend's reason/excuse is that I always only came at the end of the bar sessions or parties, so then of course they're all drunk. And no party could do without alcohol and it's about having fun (I don't see the fun in giving yourself a major hangover every morning). And he is hurt by my comments about his drinking, cus I've began to be quite harsh about that cus I've watched him drink all year. But he drinks almost every night - and if he could help it, it would be every night, and he'd down 2pints of snakebite, or drink vodka straight from the bottle despite already being insanely drunk, or insist on drinking even though he's ill and hasn't recovered properly yet. He keeps saying he can stop whenever he wanted and just chooses not to - but I'm pretty sure everyone didn't plan on becoming an alcoholic or killing their liver too and probably thought the same! He's offended that I disapprove of this and says I spoil his fun. But no I cannot act as if I condone it and I am worried about his health :frown:

It's not like I don't agree with drinking at all. If it's in moderate amount where they're only tipsy or slightly drunk, I'm fine with that and would be quite happy to stay put and hang out.

Yeh, we have mutual friends - I'm friends with 3 of his best friends, one of whom is also my very good friend, and housemate with his "soul-sister" as he calls it, pretty much, and she's my best friend. My bf is also his housemate next year and they happen to also be friends and my friend actually finds my bf to be a very cool guy. And this is another thing - my friend has neglected me before. During the time when I didn't neglect him, he's done it before. I never once said anything, nor did I hold it against him. Basically, he was meant to be my best friend as well as his "soul-sister's" best friend - I'm just gonna give them names now to make it easier. My housemate, his soul-sister, say I'll call her Mary. And this friend I have a problem with will be called John. John's both mine and Mary's best friend, but constantly John would emphasis to me "I am simply closer to Mary. She is the best thing that's happened to me. She's my sister and soul-friend." (by soul-friend, this is a Spanish term, dunno if it's used in Spain or Latin America that's meant to mean something beyond best friend, but not bf/gf) John constantly tells me that, and when Mary is around, his attention is on her. And even when we were friends and not good friends, he'd never hug me while he hugged everyone else. John's time and attention would be with Mary most of the time and he says he doesn't have time for everyone cus he's gotta be there for everyone (he acts as if the group will die without him, it's patronising, but he does want to look out for everyone). But anyway - he neglected me. And I stood by thinking - he's simply closer to Mary so that's fine. I was hurt by his lack of attention and hurt by his simple emphasis on who's more important to him, namely Mary. Ok I get the message, you're closer to Mary, fine, but stop telling me that!

I was the one who pursued the friendship before it started. I was the one who stuck by him, was there for him completely even though he was NOT my friend. I was the one who laughed off the insults and decided to see him for the good friend that he can be and pursued it regardless. I was the one who made myself not mind the fact that he's ranked importance in his friends when we're both meant to be his best friend, as he says so himself. I was the one who listened to him pour out his heart at 4am in the morning on the phone. I was the one who sat in silence in his room for the entire day because he needed a friend but did not want to talk about it. I've also done many many things for him. Why can't he forgive one slip-up? Admittedly a very hurtful one and I can understand it might take him longer to forgive me - but to actively hurt me back? Is this really what a friend, a good friend, does?

I didn't balance time well and that affected everyone. It affected Mary and her fiance too and I've also apologised to them and actively sought them out since. Yet they have none of this trouble John has. In fact, Mary and her fiance have only ever told me "I missed you and I'm so glad you're back!" and they're actively seeking me out as well, since I've started, and when I told Mary you don't usually text back, she has apologised, told me the reason was revision cus it was exam period, and when exams finished she sought me out again.

I'm just saying - surely that's the sign of a real good friend? One that lasted even when you let them down? Mary and her fiance have both welcomed me back with opened arms and Mary still considers me her best friend, and over the hols we've chatted on msn and I've emailed her etc - lol I write her long emails every now and then. And she replies with affection, and tells me how much she loves me and that I'm her ostrich (in-joke - we're both Ostriches lol).

Everyone knows that John is complicated and sometimes you simply can't tell which of his jokes are jokes and which ones are real insults. I'm just thinking whether John is an actual friend? Friends remain through time - it does not necessarily mean you gotta be in constant contact 24-7 in order to show that you care. One of my other best friends from home - she's at uni and I happen not to contact her throughout term! We're still as close as ever at home. Another best friend from home - before we became best friends the only time we ever met up was in school when we'd accidentally bump into each other, once or twice a year, and every time it's as if we were the closest friends ever and had only seen each other yesterday. My bf and his best friend - they hardly ever contact each other! His good friends from school he never contacts, but when he visited his old school ALL of his good friends were there and were thrilled to see him. He was no less close to them than when he was in school. He and his best friend still visit each other like, once or twice a year at uni. But John has proven to be in contradiction to this - it seems like just because I was gone for a time, I am no longer his friend. And to be honest, is it even normal to be spending all day everyday with John? When people are at school they don't get all worked up cus their friend failed to see them during the week.

Yeh I think I'm gonna talk to one of John's best friends and ask him what's really going on with John. I don't know if it's worth saving - I've had too many destructive friendships in the past, all of which are guy-friends grr. And I'm wondering if this was gonna be one of those again, cus even when we were still close, John's had so many issues that I'm constantly worried about him, then he uses drinking as a form of "fun" but sometimes it's more like escapism. And I get worried about him and I get really down about it. And increasingly he's becoming more and more destructive with his insults. But friends make mistakes, however hurtful - at least 1 chance should be given, right? Surely if we were so close then it's worth saving? I slipped up, no question. But hasn't he? And none of my friends - anyone whom I ever considered a close friend - has been like this to me. When me and my other close friends get back together it is as if it was yesterday, even if it had been a few months. There is no distance. :frown:

Reply 10

Sazarina88

11

I'm sorry to say that friends do sometimes drift apart.

You seem to emphasise that it was your choice a lot of the time about what happened and now you have another choice that you probably don't want to make.

Is it worth going through what I think will be quite a lot of torment to rescue your "friendship"? Or do you just break off all contact with him?

Your post was rather long so I haven't read it in detail, just skim read but it sounds as though the whole situation is more trouble than it is worth.

Whatever your decision, make sure you are comfortable with it and sure you are doing the right thing.

Sarah xx

Reply 11

lilac!!

15

wow that was a long post but i finally got through it lol :p:

okay to tell you the truth, you were a unfair and totally selfish friend!!!! but i said were but now hes unfair, i think he needs his own time but my only advice to you is now spend more time with him!! i mean one day just show up at his house with a little soory present or something or even a card. im sure both of you will have a cool day :biggrin:

i would advise you to meet up with him at least once every week then when you guys have cooled down i would suggest that you tell him of all the times he has hurt you, im sure he would understand if he cares for you :biggrin:

good luck xx

Reply 12

Anonymous #1

OP

lilac!!

wow that was a long post but i finally got through it lol :p:

okay to tell you the truth, you were a unfair and totally selfish friend!!!! but i said were but now hes unfair, i think he needs his own time but my only advice to you is now spend more time with him!! i mean one day just show up at his house with a little soory present or something or even a card. im sure both of you will have a cool day :biggrin:

i would advise you to meet up with him at least once every week then when you guys have cooled down i would suggest that you tell him of all the times he has hurt you, im sure he would understand if he cares for you :biggrin:

good luck xx

Lol he lives in Conventry and me in Peterborough so I doubt I'd randomly turn up at his door as a surprise! I did buy him a present from Germany though... it's a bottle opener that's also a magnet in the shape of a pint :biggrin:

(like I said, I'm not against moderate drinking!) And it's his birthday soon (mid August) so I'm gonna be sending him a text wishing him a Happy Birthday. I don't even know if he wants to see me. I have thought of going up to Conventry though, just cus I've got a few friends who all live in Conventry.

Maybe I was the one who changed... I just ceased to finding insults and sex jokes funny cus they're just plain rude. I'm the sort who thinks a friendship is always worth saving at all costs - despite the mistake I've made I don't actually take a friendship lightly and I'd be there for anyone who needs me, friend or not. I'm just in a dilemma as to, well, is he actually a friend or just a destructive "friend"? Cus if he's just destructive then I might as well let go now that he's drifting away.

Thanx for all your posts. Sorry my story was so long. I'm definitely gonna talk to that friend of John's. John himself gives out too many contradictory messages :redface:

Anymore advice appreciated x

Complicated friend

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