So i'm watching the eu president debate... and they are all the same Watch

crayz
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhafgcPeXes

Seriously? Not only do we not get to vote but they all say the same thing. How is this a debate?
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SHallowvale
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MEPs (our representatives) will vote for the President of the European Parliament on our behalf:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutp...President.html

There do not exist presidential candidates for the AECR (the conservative/reformist party) or the EAF (the euroskeptic/right-wing party) as they did not put forth any. Thus, the people in the debates will be ''all the same''. If you have a problem then maybe you should have taken it up with them? :dontknow:
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
MEPs (our representatives) will vote for the President of the European Parliament on our behalf:

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/aboutp...President.html

There do not exist presidential candidates for the AECR (the conservative/reformist party) or the EAF (the euroskeptic/right-wing party) as they did not put forth any. Thus, the people in the debates will be ''all the same''. If you have a problem then maybe you should have taken it up with them? :dontknow:
The four biggest groups in the EU all say the same thing... what is the point in even voting.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by crayz)
The four biggest groups in the EU all say the same thing... what is the point in even voting.
If you do not vote for anyone outside of the 'big four' then there will always be a 'big four'.
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
If you do not vote for anyone outside of the 'big four' then there will always be a 'big four'.
The groups outside the top 4 are tiny very few political parties are part of them. For example the group the Conservative party is part of almost half of the seats in the party are provided by them (26 of 56). The group UKIP is part of they have 10 of the 33 seats they currently have. 100% of people in the UK could vote for these parties and their groups would still have less than 10% of the overall seats.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by crayz)
The groups outside the top 4 are tiny very few political parties are part of them. For example the group the Conservative party is part of almost half of the seats in the party are provided by them (26 of 56). The group UKIP is part of they have 10 of the 33 seats they currently have. 100% of people in the UK could vote for these parties and their groups would still have less than 10% of the overall seats.
By voting for euroskeptic MEPs you are in effect promoting euroscepticism in the European Parliament and to the non-UK voters in the European Union. By doing this you'll gradually increase the number of euroskeptic MEPs in the European Parliament and thus increase the political power that the EFD, AECR, etc, have.

No country can 'do it alone'.
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
By voting for euroskeptic MEPs you are in effect promoting euroscepticism in the European Parliament and to the non-UK voters in the European Union. By doing this you'll gradually increase the number of euroskeptic MEPs in the European Parliament and thus increase the political power that the EFD, AECR, etc, have.

No country can 'do it alone'.
The other countries disagree with us though.
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Saoirse:3
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(Original post by crayz)
The other countries disagree with us though.
Oh no, not democracy! People disagree with you? How outrageous!!
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by crayz)
The other countries disagree with us though.
If a majority of people in the EU disagree and/or oppose Euroskeptic views then, well, tough? That's democracy for you.

Alternatively, you could go out and actually try to promote Euroskepticism. Or, you could vote for, say, UKIP in the 2015 elections in hope that they will gain seats in the HoC and propose a referendum on EU membership.
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Falcatas
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A grotesque perversion of the world "democracy" here.

There is no real democracy in the EU as there is no European demos.
The presidential candidate hate democracy they can get away it with it because none are directly elected by the people of Europe.

In America, Presidential candidates actually are voted by the people. Many people voted for Obama.

No one will vote for Verhofstadt, Schulz, Juncker or that Keller because we can't.
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crayz
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(Original post by Saoirse:3)
Oh no, not democracy! People disagree with you? How outrageous!!
What is the point in being part of a political union that has views that are the polar opposite of ours? It makes our voting worthless.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by Falcatas)

In America, Presidential candidates actually are voted by the people. Many people voted for Obama.
No-one voted for Obama. He didn't stand. The Democratic candidates in Illinois (Obama's home state) were:


Carrie Austin
Julia Kennedy Beckman
Barb Brown
Christine Cegelis
Barbara Flynn-Currie
John R. Daley
Vera Davis
James A. Deleo
Lynn Foster
Lauren Beth Gash
Mark Guethle
Debbie Halvorson
Don Johnston
Shirley McCombs
Andrew R. Madigan
Ricardo Munoz
William Marovit
John Nelson
Toni Preckwinkle
Nancy Shepherdson
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by Falcatas)
A grotesque perversion of the world "democracy" here.

There is no real democracy in the EU as there is no European demos.
The presidential candidate hate democracy they can get away it with it because none are directly elected by the people of Europe.

In America, Presidential candidates actually are voted by the people. Many people voted for Obama.

No one will vote for Verhofstadt, Schulz, Juncker or that Keller because we can't.
Wrong, the Electoral College votes for the President (and Vice-President) of the US, not the people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elector...ited_States%29.

The Electoral College is made up of members of Congress (representatives, basically). The EU uses a very similar system; members of the European Parliament vote for the President of the European Parliament. Both follow the ''We represent you, we vote for you'' structure.

(Original post by crayz)
What is the point in being part of a political union that has views that are the polar opposite of ours? It makes our voting worthless.
''Ours''? What, is everyone in the UK a strong euroskeptic now? :confused:
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)

''Ours''? What, is everyone in the UK a strong euroskeptic now? :confused:
Look at the voting results in the last election in 2009 the top two parties we elected were euro-sceptic parties.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by crayz)
Look at the voting results in the last election in 2009 the top two parties we elected were euro-sceptic parties.
Fair enough, although i'd argue that the 2009 election results do not reflect the views of the entire (or most of the) UK electorate as only 34% voted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...ted_Kingdom%29.
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
Fair enough, although i'd argue that the 2009 election results do not reflect the views of the entire (or most of the) UK electorate as only 34% voted:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...ted_Kingdom%29.
And the general election 2010 had a 65.1% turnout, it has been shown time and time again that political polls before elections are extremely accurate at predicting results with rather low sample sizes compared to the size of the population.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by crayz)
And the general election 2010 had a 65.1% turnout, it has been shown time and time again that political polls before elections are extremely accurate at predicting results with rather low sample sizes compared to the size of the population.
What are you trying to say?

In the European Parliament election (2009), around 51% of the electorate voted for euroskeptic parties (the Conservatives, UKIP and the BNP). In the General Election (2010), around 54.6% of the electorate voted for pro-EU parties (Labour, Liberal Democrats, Greens, etc).

I'm unsure how the comparison can be made? The general election had a higher turnout (IE, more reflective of public opinion); surely the case should be made that the public support the EU more than they oppose it?
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
What are you trying to say?

In the European Parliament election (2009), around 51% of the electorate voted for euroskeptic parties (the Conservatives, UKIP and the BNP). In the General Election (2010), around 54.6% of the electorate voted for pro-EU parties (Labour, Liberal Democrats, Greens, etc).

I'm unsure how the comparison can be made? The general election had a higher turnout (IE, more reflective of public opinion); surely the case should be made that the public support the EU more than they oppose it?
Nope look at the polls people vote different in european elections to general ones.
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SHallowvale
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(Original post by crayz)
Nope look at the polls people vote different in european elections to general ones.
I know, i've just shown that? :confused:
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crayz
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(Original post by SHallowvale)
I know, i've just shown that? :confused:
They differently because they are showing their opposition to the EU not because of the lower turnout. Polls don't have lower turnouts yet they show different results for both elections.
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