Gerry Adams arrested! Breaking News!

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MostUncivilised
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http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...nville-killing

Northern Ireland police say 65-year-old man detained in investigation into one of most notorious killings of the Troubles
Holy ****! This is huge.
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MostUncivilised
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Apparently this is based on a murder in 1972.

It's a difficult issue, I am emphatically pro-union and I despise Republican terrorists. But the Good Friday Agreement essentially involved an amnesty for crimes that were committed under the banner of Republican or Loyalist militant groups.
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Old_Simon
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
Apparently this is based on a murder in 1972.

It's a difficult issue, I am emphatically pro-union and I despise Republican terrorists. But the Good Friday Agreement essentially involved an amnesty for crimes that were committed under the banner of Republican or Loyalist militant groups.
I am not sure the GFA contains any such amnesty at all.
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L i b
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Yeah, I thought we were pretty much OK with all that now.

I think a great many of us assume automatically that Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and all that were, on some level, involved in murder. But I suppose the point of a peace process is that we substitute justice for peace.
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by Old_Simon)
I am not sure the GFA contains any such amnesty at all.
Many, many prisoners convicted of terrorism offences were released from prison early under the agreement, many IRA "on-the-runs" were told they would not be prosecuted (and this was public as early as 2005).

The whole point of the process was that it was a political process, not military or legal process, designed to end the violence and that this was the only way you could realistically bring the Provisional IRA to the negotiating table.
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
Many, many prisoners convicted of terrorism offences were released from prison early under the agreement, many IRA "on-the-runs" were told they would not be prosecuted (and this was public as early as 2005).

The whole point of the process was that it was a political process, not military or legal process, designed to end the violence and that this was the only way you could realistically bring the Provisional IRA to the negotiating table.
Well, maybe for murders against each other.

However, I believe this woman was executed on false/inaccurate information.
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by L i b)
Yeah, I thought we were pretty much OK with all that now.

I think a great many of us assume automatically that Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and all that were, on some level, involved in murder. But I suppose the point of a peace process is that we substitute justice for peace.
Precisely. I'm no fan of Peter Hain, but he was essentially right that if you want peace, to some degree you must accept that there will be no justice for many. Peace is its own form of justice.

That's why you won't see prosecutions of soldiers involved in Bloody Sunday, or Loyalists involved killings, and Republicans involved in bombings. This was why you saw absolutely repulsive criminals like Michael Stone (who attacked a funeral with grenades, killing three and injuring sixty) released after only 13 years in prison.
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billydisco
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(Original post by L i b)
Yeah, I thought we were pretty much OK with all that now.

I think a great many of us assume automatically that Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness and all that were, on some level, involved in murder. But I suppose the point of a peace process is that we substitute justice for peace.
Whatever happened to not negotiating with terrorists?

(Pretty funny considering Labour shook hands with IRA and Libya.....)
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paddey7
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People have a habit of forgetting the crimes committed by loyalist groups and the British Army in Northern Ireland, it wasn't just Republican extremists
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Clip
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
That's why you won't see prosecutions of soldiers involved in Bloody Sunday, or Loyalists involved killings, and Republicans involved in bombings. This was why you saw absolutely repulsive criminals like Michael Stone (who attacked a funeral with grenades, killing three and injuring sixty) released after only 13 years in prison.
How do you know that?

On point - how did Adams not get himself a letter from Tony B?
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thunder_chunky
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About damn time.
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billydisco
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
Precisely. I'm no fan of Peter Hain, but he was essentially right that if you want peace, to some degree you must accept that there will be no justice for many. Peace is its own form of justice.

That's why you won't see prosecutions of soldiers involved in Bloody Sunday, or Loyalists involved killings, and Republicans involved in bombings. This was why you saw absolutely repulsive criminals like Michael Stone (who attacked a funeral with grenades, killing three and injuring sixty) released after only 13 years in prison.
Yeh lets send out a message that its fine to kill people if you do it on a large-enough scale :rolleyes:
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by paddey7)
People have a habit of forgetting the crimes committed by loyalist groups and the British Army in Northern Ireland, it wasn't just Republican extremists
And many Republicans conveniently forget that for much of the Troubles, the majority of Catholic nationalists supported the SDLP and non-violent struggle, not a vicious campaign of bombings and shootings.

The British state made mistakes, no doubt. But if Britain had withdrawn from Northern Ireland, it would have been a bloodbath for the Catholics. They originally went in there in 1969 to protect the Catholic population and generally had the support of the nationalists when they first went in.
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Fizzel
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Surely they are going to nail him? You'd think its the kind of move (arresting him) they would have thought long and hard about, it would have to have gone a long way up the ladder, and as such some big people are putting some big careers on the line if they blows up in their face.
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by billydisco)
Yeh lets send out a message that its fine to kill people if you do it on a large-enough scale :rolleyes:
Stupid comment. People would still be dying in large numbers today if we hadn't negotiated the Good Friday Agreement. All sides agreed that they had to put the past behind them, including Loyalists, whose killings tended to be targeted at civilians on a purely sectarian basis to a far greater degree than the IRA's.
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MostUncivilised
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I'd encourage anyone interested in the subject to watch this documentary, it's absolutely superb and I think unrivalled in its depiction of the Troubles. There are three episodes about the Provos (Provisional IRA), and three episodes about the Brits (security services and Army). Its interviews of IRA commanders, top civil servants, intelligence officers, Army brass, are exceptional and unique



Edit: Sorry for the re-post, I intended to post the Brits documentary, not the Provos documentary. This one is far better.
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billydisco
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(Original post by MostUncivilised)
Stupid comment. People would still be dying in large numbers today if we hadn't negotiated the Good Friday Agreement. All sides agreed that they had to put the past behind them, including Loyalists, whose killings tended to be targeted at civilians on a purely sectarian basis to a far greater degree than the IRA's.
Read what I said- it says that if you want something so long as you kill enough people you'll get away with it............. is that not true?
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MostUncivilised
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(Original post by Fizzel)
Surely they are going to nail him? You'd think its the kind of move (arresting him) they would have thought long and hard about, it would have to have gone a long way up the ladder, and as such some big people are putting some big careers on the line if they blows up in their face.
The problem with nailing him is that many of the people involved are now dead, and apparently this evidence comes from the oral history project where Boston College interviewed IRA members like Brendan Hughes and Dolours Price, on the basis that it would only be released after their death.

Given these people are dead now, it would be difficult to adduce their evidence in court as it cannot be tested. Those IRA members who are still alive are highly unlikely to talk.
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username1221160
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Adams is one of the people who you may not like, but you'd rather see him arguing across a table than killing people.

But he has served his purpose and it doesn't look like Northern Ireland is going to flare up again anytime soon. Seeing him in prison for murder, if he was responsible, would be quite satisfying.
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Zarek
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(Original post by Quantex)
Adams is one of the people who you may not like, but you'd rather see him arguing across a table than killing people.

But he has served his purpose and it doesn't look like Northern Ireland is going to flare up again anytime soon. Seeing him in prison for murder, if he was responsible, would be quite satisfying.
Can't really see this happening 1) it would surely destabilise the peace process and 2) they have already agreed to let all the murderers out. Wouldn't surprise me if it was an arranged stunt.
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