Implication
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Harassment, assault and rape are clearly terrible things, and I think this is a fact that almost all of us can recognise. The everyday sexism project is, I think, a good thing in that we men often don't appreciate how common degrees of harassment are for women and hence can find it very easy to dismiss incidents as exaggerated in frequency. It's raising awareness, and hopefully making victims feel more empowered: rather than dismissing incidents of harassment as "just what happens", they should be reporting them to the police or security or whoever, depending on severity. And I think this movement will help that.

But, for the love of god, can we please stop referring to every damned incident as sexism? It's nonsense. Sure, it's possible that some incidents of harassment are examples of sexism, but it seems to me like the two words are almost becoming synonymous, and this is clearly something we should oppose: they are not the same thing.

Yes, women probably are victims of this sort of thing far more often than men. But no, they are not the only victims and, even if they were, this would not demonstrate that the issue is one of sexism. Not every gendered problem is a result of sexism,and it's about bloody time we recognised this. Not every offence committed by a male against a female is sexism - in the same way that not every offence committed by one race against another is racism. Sometimes they are, but to assume this is the case is a great leap of (il)logic.

To demonstrate my point, I'd just like you to go to the everyday sexism website (http://everydaysexism.com/) and read a few of the incidents there. And ask yourself "how do I know that the man here is a sexist or a misogynist?" Sure he is a man, and sure the victim is a woman, but does this mean this is a sexist incident? In most cases, I submit to you, the answer is simply "no". Usually he's a ****, but he's not necessarily a sexist ****.

And to add a bit of satire to an otherwise boring thread,

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ComeBackKid
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Their message dating system is strange, the 2013 posts are the first pages (ie 123) I assume the recent messages are the last pages? Strange.
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Sunny_Smiles
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the fact that girls have such a culture of moaning about their issues when guys don't just undermines their cultural status even more in my view - the more you winge about things, unlike us guys, the more we're going to see you as weak/incapable in general - don't you think men have a hard time as well with stereotypes and cultural expectations? don't pretend you have it worse than us - if you're the "vulnerable and submissive sex", we're the "expendable, pressured and unvalued" sex. and don't forget - being the "precious" sex is a privileging effect in our society in a lot of cases. and the fact that women cry so easily sometimes is really reinforcing their own endearment; children cry, children are weaker/less responsible than adults, etc
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LightBlueSoldier
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That flow hart is just remarkably accurate.


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Huskaris
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#5
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I was going to comment on this thread but I was too busy oppressing the entire female gender.

I think a lot of women need to do a lot of growing up, although I would say (and I have been saying this for ages) that there is an issue of what I call mis-attribution if you are not a white male.

Example.

You go for a job interview and you don't get it. If you are a white man, you will just dust yourself down and move onto the next one realising you weren't the best candidate. If you are black/a woman etc, you might put that down to your race/gender either as a defense mechanism, as a nasty way of getting back at someone, or as a genuine mistake.

I have been shouted at by men and women out of cars before. Not sexist. But if it happens to a woman OMG SEXISM.

It's pathetic.
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Viva Emptiness
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God I love being a woman.
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TolerantBeing
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(Original post by Sunny_Smiles)
the fact that girls have such a culture of moaning about their issues when guys don't just undermines their cultural status even more in my view - the more you winge about things, unlike us guys, the more we're going to see you as weak/incapable in general - don't you think men have a hard time as well with stereotypes and cultural expectations? don't pretend you have it worse than us - if you're the "vulnerable and submissive sex", we're the "expendable, pressured and unvalued" sex. and don't forget - being the "precious" sex is a privileging effect in our society in a lot of cases. and the fact that women cry so easily sometimes is really reinforcing their own endearment; children cry, children are weaker/less responsible than adults, etc
Jesus, don't speak on behalf of all your gender. Some underlying prejudice there.


Also surprisingly contradictory with your girly haircut. Don't get many misogynists who are feminine guys.
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Sunny_Smiles
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(Original post by TolerantBeing)
Jesus, don't speak on behalf of all your gender. Some underlying prejudice there.


Also surprisingly contradictory with your girly haircut. Don't get many misogynists who are feminine guys.
you're just hating on me because I'm fabulous...:rolleyes:
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Implication
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(Original post by TolerantBeing)
Jesus, don't speak on behalf of all your gender. Some underlying prejudice there.


Also surprisingly contradictory with your girly haircut. Don't get many misogynists who are feminine guys.
You may have a point, but I'd like to point out your own prejudice in implying that this man(?) is a misogynist. On a very similar note to my original post, not everyone who criticises feminism or even women in general is a misogynist.
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Implication
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(Original post by Huskaris)
I was going to comment on this thread but I was too busy oppressing the entire female gender.

I think a lot of women need to do a lot of growing up, although I would say (and I have been saying this for ages) that there is an issue of what I call mis-attribution if you are not a white male.

Example.

You go for a job interview and you don't get it. If you are a white man, you will just dust yourself down and move onto the next one realising you weren't the best candidate. If you are black/a woman etc, you might put that down to your race/gender either as a defense mechanism, as a nasty way of getting back at someone, or as a genuine mistake.

I have been shouted at by men and women out of cars before. Not sexist. But if it happens to a woman OMG SEXISM.

It's pathetic.
Definitely agree in general. Sometimes race or sex can be involved, but just because the "victim" of some incident is of a perceived "minority" (I use the word loosely) does not mean they were victimised because of that. I call people who always assume this to be the case "professional victims": they just seem to think that life happens to them and generally lack the ability to take responsibility. Didn't get that job? It can't possibly be because you didn't demonstrate that you were the best candidate; the only possibility is that you were being discriminated against!
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Jaegon Targaryen
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(Original post by Huskaris)
I was going to comment on this thread but I was too busy oppressing the entire female gender.

It's pathetic.
Best post i've read in a while lol
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2ndClass
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(Original post by TolerantBeing)
Also surprisingly contradictory with your girly haircut. Don't get many misogynists who are feminine guys.
:eek:

That was brutal :lol:
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TolerantBeing
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(Original post by Implication)
You may have a point, but I'd like to point out your own prejudice in implying that this man(?) is a misogynist. On a very similar note to my original post, not everyone who criticises feminism or even women in general is a misogynist.
True. The bits I highlighted in bold indicated prejudice, but misogyny was probably the wrong word.
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TolerantBeing
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(Original post by 2ndClass)
:eek:

That was brutal :lol:
Bit too harsh? I did feel a bit guilty posting it.
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Falcatas
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Highly relevant piece.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...y_sexism/14195


Everyday sexism is nothing more than propping up the cult of victimhood.
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Implication
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(Original post by Falcatas)
Highly relevant piece.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...y_sexism/14195


Everyday sexism is nothing more than propping up the cult of victimhood.
Great article. Basically states my thoughts far more eloquently than I could myself!
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Cobbler
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(Original post by Huskaris)
I was going to comment on this thread but I was too busy oppressing the entire female gender.

I think a lot of women need to do a lot of growing up, although I would say (and I have been saying this for ages) that there is an issue of what I call mis-attribution if you are not a white male.

Example.

You go for a job interview and you don't get it. If you are a white man, you will just dust yourself down and move onto the next one realising you weren't the best candidate. If you are black/a woman etc, you might put that down to your race/gender either as a defense mechanism, as a nasty way of getting back at someone, or as a genuine mistake.

I have been shouted at by men and women out of cars before. Not sexist. But if it happens to a woman OMG SEXISM.

It's pathetic.
You obviously weren't working that hard on your oppression, seeing as you did indeed comment on this thread!
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Queen Lupita
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(Original post by Implication)
But, for the love of god, can we please stop referring to every damned incident as sexism? It's nonsense. Sure, it's possible that some incidents of harassment are examples of sexism, but it seems to me like the two words are almost becoming synonymous, and this is clearly something we should oppose: they are not the same thing.
I understand your point that it might not always be done out of sexism, because obviously a gay man sexually harrassing another gay man isn't automatically "misandry". :rolleyes:

However we refer to it as sexism as it's largely due to a societal male entitlement to our bodies which is the cause, and is sexist.

But no, they are not the only victims and, even if they were, this would not demonstrate that the issue is one of sexism.
No one said we are. :rolleyes:
Not every offence committed by a male against a female is sexism
I haven't seen anyone deny this.

" And ask yourself "how do I know that the man here is a sexist or a misogynist?" Sure he is a man, and sure the victim is a woman, but does this mean this is a sexist incident?"
Well he obviously thinks he is entitled to women's bodies which is a sexist position.
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Implication
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(Original post by Queen Lupita)
I understand your point that it might not always be done out of sexism, because obviously a gay man sexually harrassing another gay man isn't automatically "misandry". :rolleyes:

However we refer to it as sexism as it's largely due to a societal male entitlement to our bodies which is the cause, and is sexist.


No one said we are. :rolleyes:
I haven't seen anyone deny this.

" And ask yourself "how do I know that the man here is a sexist or a misogynist?" Sure he is a man, and sure the victim is a woman, but does this mean this is a sexist incident?"
Well he obviously thinks he is entitled to women's bodies which is a sexist position.
(a) Do you have any evidence that any or all such behaviour is due to people thinking they have an "entitlement" to any bodies?
(b) Do you have any evidence that this is society-wide (as you implied)?
(c) Do you have any evidence that any entitlement is "sexist"? Even if you're right on the former points, then it's equally plausible that they feel entitled to anyone's bodies and just so happen to be attracted to females.
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Huskaris
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(Original post by Cobbler)
You obviously weren't working that hard on your oppression, seeing as you did indeed comment on this thread!
Sometimes I just can't handle how hard I oppress people. I wake up every morning stretch out and go ahhhh thank god I'm a white male, the whole world is at my feet, the world does me so many favours and life is so easy, all because I am a white male.
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