Why vote UKIP in the EU elections? Watch

InnerTemple
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I don't quite understand why people would vote to have a UKIP MEP.

UKIP has complained that the EU is an undemocratic body and this is just another reason for us to leave. However the main influence people have in the EU is through their MEP. Which is why I think it odd that UKIP has a policy of either not attending votes in the Euro Parliament... or just voting against anything regardless.

Now I get that they want out - but the only body with the power to do that is the UK Parliament. Only a bunch of MPs can decide to do that. It strikes me that the European Parliament and the elections to that institution simply is not the venue to consider withdrawal.

The in/out debate and whether the EU is good for us is a matter which ought to be left for the general election, surely? Whilst we are in the EU, we should all be concerned with electing someone who will best represent us... no?

On Sunday politics, a Lib Dem MEP explained how she had been part of a reform of the European Arrest Warrant. Rather than supporting its reform, only one UKIP MEP turned up and he voted against it. Which is odd, I think.

Consider this: If your region gets a UKIP MEP, you have no voice whatsoever in the European Parliament.

UKIP MEP = no representation for your region.

Why would anyone want this?
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StretfordEnd
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Agree fully. I would have a great deal more respect for UKIP if they stood on a platform of reform (that rhyme was intentional, I assure you) and looked to create a reform bloc with other countries...but they don't, they don't do anything.

I'm not sure why the Tory campaign hasn't focused more relentlessly on the fact that UKIP are powerless to change anything without MP's and that they're the only ones who can offer change because they're the only ones with a referendum.

(I get this is more of a GE campaign issue, but the Tories could easily campaign on this now whilst simultaneously indicating that all UKIP's campaign stances are things that can't be solved by MEPs)
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Mockery
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Completely agree, whether you support leaving the EU or greater reforms voting UKIP in the European elections will get you neither of those.

Please, use your votes wisely people. You ruin the whole premise of 'democracy' for the rest of us if you don't..
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SHallowvale
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Agreed, InnerTemple.

Their European Election Manifesto goes on and on about the benefits of leaving the European Union but it does not detail how UKIP will get us out. UKIP cannot offer a referendum on Europe by being in the European Parliament.

I guess people who simply dislike everything EU may decide to vote for UKIP if what you say is true: they'll just attempt to veto every bit of legislation that comes from the European Commission. Even then, if they don't bother showing up in the European Parliament then what's the point in the voting for them for that reason?

The most concrete reason to vote for UKIP (that I can think of) is that it will give them a kind of political 'boost'; it'll certainly satisfy their pride. Although, I don't think anyone in government really cares enough about the upcoming 'earthquake' UKIP will cause. If what UKIP say is true (''we have no power in Europe!'') then i'm not even sure why they themselves would care.

Source: http://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net...pdf?1398869254
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by SHallowvale)

The most concrete reason to vote for UKIP (that I can think of) is that it will give them a kind of political 'boost'; it'll certainly satisfy their pride.
Yes I agree. Seems to me that UKIP are sacrificing the right of representation of anyone who votes for them, just so they can get some airtime and look a bit more legitimate.

Once they are actually elected, they do sod all.

I hope that some of our resident UKIPers can come along and explain what they will gain from having a UKIP MEP.
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No Man
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Either way, it's a case of having no voice because of MEPs who just accept anything that the EU proposes or no voice because of MEPs who boycott the parliment.
I understand your point though, OP, but I think that the attitude of UKIP MEPs coupled with theattitude of highly popular anti-EU parties in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark will be the perfect formula to make the EU collapse as the Soviet Union did.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by No Man)
Either way, it's a case of having no voice because of MEPs who just accept anything that the EU proposes or no voice because of MEPs who boycott the parliment.
I understand your point though, OP, but I think that the attitude of UKIP MEPs coupled with theattitude of highly popular anti-EU parties in the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, Hungary, Greece, Sweden, Finland, and Denmark will be the perfect formula to make the EU collapse as the Soviet Union did.
That's not very democratic though, is it?

The EU is something which, even if you are strongly against it, has some benefits. Now surely it is better to work inside the system to drive change, with a view to having a referendum in your own country about membership.

To exist within an insitituion, supported by many ordinary people, just to work towards its collapse isn't very fair at all. I don't think this is what UKIP wants surely? I thought they supported people having their say...?
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StretfordEnd
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(Original post by SHallowvale)

The most concrete reason to vote for UKIP (that I can think of) is that it will give them a kind of political 'boost'; it'll certainly satisfy their pride.
Making a rod for their own backs though, aren't they? As soon as it comes to GE campaign time, any incumbent they can challenge can just say 'Your party has had seats in the European Parliament since 1999. What have you done?'

Err...nothing.

Naturally UKIP get a boost in the European Elections because turnout is poorer. Those who will vote are those who have pretty strong opinions on Europe and largely speaking those opinions tend to be negative at present.

The main parties don't want to adopt a nationwide campaign against UKIP for fear of giving them legitimacy, and it's not possible to campaign against UKIP in any other way in the EU elections because of the type of voting. (For the party, rather than for an individual).

When it comes to GE thins will be different, incumbents will hammer any UKIP candidate standing for their seat because the party has such a shocking record in actually...doing anything.

I don't think they'll take over 5 seats at the GE, and I think I'm being generous.
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No Man
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
That's not very democratic though, is it?

The EU is something which, even if you are strongly against it, has some benefits. Now surely it is better to work inside the system to drive change, with a view to having a referendum in your own country about membership.

To exist within an insitituion, supported by many ordinary people, just to work towards its collapse isn't very fair at all. I don't think this is what UKIP wants surely? I thought they supported people having their say...?
A vote for UKIP is a vote to collapse/want collapse the EU, which is what they and other anti-EU parties want, ultimately. That sounds democratic to me if the majority vote for it.
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Georgie_M
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
I don't quite understand why people would vote to have a UKIP MEP.

UKIP has complained that the EU is an undemocratic body and this is just another reason for us to leave. However the main influence people have in the EU is through their MEP. Which is why I think it odd that UKIP has a policy of either not attending votes in the Euro Parliament... or just voting against anything regardless.

Now I get that they want out - but the only body with the power to do that is the UK Parliament. Only a bunch of MPs can decide to do that. It strikes me that the European Parliament and the elections to that institution simply is not the venue to consider withdrawal.

The in/out debate and whether the EU is good for us is a matter which ought to be left for the general election, surely? Whilst we are in the EU, we should all be concerned with electing someone who will best represent us... no?

On Sunday politics, a Lib Dem MEP explained how she had been part of a reform of the European Arrest Warrant. Rather than supporting its reform, only one UKIP MEP turned up and he voted against it. Which is odd, I think.

Consider this: If your region gets a UKIP MEP, you have no voice whatsoever in the European Parliament.

UKIP MEP = no representation for your region.

Why would anyone want this?
No more rep but I 100% agree.

It's largely because people don't understand politics and think that their vote will mean UKIP have a stronger presence - which they will but only on a technicality.
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Wattsy
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My constituency managed to elect Godfrey Bloom in the European Elections, I might actually vote in order to do my bit in not letting something so stupid happen again.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by No Man)
A vote for UKIP is a vote to collapse/want collapse the EU, which is what they and other anti-EU parties want, ultimately. That sounds democratic to me if the majority vote for it.
I'm not convinced that they will achieve their aim.

I thought people who voted just wanted the UK out? I checked the UKIP website and it doesn't mention anything about removing all the other EU member States - some of which are more pro EU than the UK.

The truth is - you vote UKIP... and you just lose all influence in the EU.
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StretfordEnd
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(Original post by No Man)
A vote for UKIP is a vote to collapse/want collapse the EU, which is what they and other anti-EU parties want, ultimately. That sounds democratic to me if the majority vote for it.
In his debate Farrage spoke numerous times about wanting an independent UK to retain strong and friendly links with EU for trade(which as an economic force is certainly greater than the sum of its parts).

Are you suggesting he was lying and his real goal is something slightly more revolutionary?
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No Man
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
I'm not convinced that they will achieve their aim.

I thought people who voted just wanted the UK out? I checked the UKIP website and it doesn't mention anything about removing all the other EU member States - some of which are more pro EU than the UK.

The truth is - you vote UKIP... and you just lose all influence in the EU.
We're back to where we started when I posted my first response then.

The truth is - I'm going to vote UKIP in the EU-elections, because I want the EU to collapse, and none of the other UK parties will achieve in doing that anyway.

(Original post by StretfordEnd)
In his debate Farrage spoke numerous times about wanting an independent UK to retain strong and friendly links with EU for trade(which as an economic force is certainly greater than the sum of its parts).

Are you suggesting he was lying and his real goal is something slightly more revolutionary?
That might be what he wants, but I don't think that the EU will be stable enough if the anti-EU parties from the continent also get what they want, until the EU ultimately becomes a trade agreement, like it was originally.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by No Man)
We're back to where we started when I posted my first response then.

The truth is - I'm going to vote UKIP in the EU-elections, because I want the EU to collapse, and none of the other UK parties will achieve in doing that anyway.
That's a bit selfish then, isn't it?

The MEP elections are about selecting someone to represent you - not about whether the EU should exist or whether we ought to be part of it.

If you get an MEP, and the EU passes some laws you don't like, or fails to pass some laws which would be good for the UK - will you be happy knowing that your region was never represented in the process?
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Observatory
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
That's a bit selfish then, isn't it?

The MEP elections are about selecting someone to represent you - not about whether the EU should exist or whether we ought to be part of it.
He wants someone to represent his view that the EU should not exist and/or we shouldn't be part of it. That is entirely reasonable.
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InnerTemple
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(Original post by Observatory)
He wants someone to represent his view that the EU should not exist and/or we shouldn't be part of it. That is entirely reasonable.
I'd suggest that he votes for a UKIP MP rather than a UKIP MEP then.

Ultimately we are in the EU. There is nothing a UKIP MEP can do about this. While we are there, I'd rather have someone in the parliament actually doing something.
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No Man
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
That's a bit selfish then, isn't it?

The MEP elections are about selecting someone to represent you - not about whether the EU should exist or whether we ought to be part of it.

If you get an MEP, and the EU passes some laws you don't like, or fails to pass some laws which would be good for the UK - will you be happy knowing that your region was never represented in the process?
That part of things would be no different if one of the other 3 parties got elected anyway, in my opinion.
But we'll see after the 22nd of May.
As for being selfish, I live for a few people, not everyone in the UK/EU.
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Observatory
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(Original post by InnerTemple)
I'd suggest that he votes for a UKIP MP rather than a UKIP MEP then.
Why not both?

Ultimately we are in the EU. There is nothing a UKIP MEP can do about this. While we are there, I'd rather have someone in the parliament actually doing something.
A UKIP MEP signals that a certain percentage of the population of the UK wants to leave. This is especially important since most people don't decide their general election vote on the EU issue.
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nathan2k1
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Yes, rather hypocritical since the aim of UKIP would be to pull out of the EU full stop.
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