The Abortion Debate

Speciez99

Never the best option? what about rape and where the mother's life is at risk. Also you fail to take into account the fact that the foetus does not have rights when it is in its early stages. Lastly you admit that if the women took precautions and they failed she has a moral right to an abortion. For some women when this happens the abortion is the best option.

How many abortions come about as a result of rape and where the mothers life is at risk? As to the foetus not having rights well this is a technicality, all it would take to change this is to change the law. In the case of precautions failing (which if all necessary precautions are taken is a ridiculously small chance) i think perhaps theres an argument for abortion, though again i would question why people deem somebodies life to be worth less than 9 months of theirs.

Reply 102

Jonatan

OP

13

an Siarach

How many abortions come about as a result of rape and where the mothers life is at risk? As to the foetus not having rights well this is a technicality, all it would take to change this is to change the law. In the case of precautions failing (which if all necessary precautions are taken is a ridiculously small chance) i think perhaps theres an argument for abortion, though again i would question why people deem somebodies life to be worth less than 9 months of theirs.

It is a question of when you considder someone a person. A fertilised eggcell is not the same thing as a newborn baby. The truth of the matter is that you do not have full sovereign rights until you are above 21 ( 18 in some countries). In teh case of abortion I think it is allowed regardless of reason within 3 months of pregnancy. After that it is only allowed in special circumstances, and further on it is only allowed if the pregnency seriously threatens the health of the mother. The argument fo rthis is that there is no distinct point were a collection of non-conscious cells suddenly become a human being. It happens gradually.

Reply 103

Jonatan

OP

13

an Siarach

How many abortions come about as a result of rape and where the mothers life is at risk? As to the foetus not having rights well this is a technicality, all it would take to change this is to change the law. In the case of precautions failing (which if all necessary precautions are taken is a ridiculously small chance) i think perhaps theres an argument for abortion, though again i would question why people deem somebodies life to be worth less than 9 months of theirs.

It is a question of when you considder someone a person. A fertilised eggcell is not the same thing as a newborn baby. The truth of the matter is that you do not have full sovereign rights until you are above 21 ( 18 in some countries). In teh case of abortion I think it is allowed regardless of reason within 3 months of pregnancy. After that it is only allowed in special circumstances, and further on it is only allowed if the pregnency seriously threatens the health of the mother. The argument fo rthis is that there is no distinct point were a collection of non-conscious cells suddenly become a human being. It happens gradually. 3 months is picked as a border line because this is when the feutus starts displaying signs of cognitive functions (such as kicking).

Reply 104

Jonatan

It is a question of when you considder someone a person. A fertilised eggcell is not the same thing as a newborn baby. The truth of the matter is that you do not have full sovereign rights until you are above 21 ( 18 in some countries). In teh case of abortion I think it is allowed regardless of reason within 3 months of pregnancy. After that it is only allowed in special circumstances, and further on it is only allowed if the pregnency seriously threatens the health of the mother. The argument fo rthis is that there is no distinct point were a collection of non-conscious cells suddenly become a human being. It happens gradually.

Relevantly : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1171650,00.html

Reply 105

Jonatan

OP

13

an Siarach

Relevantly : http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1171650,00.html

I could not access the article but I beleive you are referring to recent research sugesting the feutus show cognitive functions earlier than previously expected?

Perhaps the time during which you could have an abortion should be shortened, perhaps it should be keot as it is. The only thing I claim is that the development of a human person doesnt happen in the blink of a second and thus you could allow an abortion without reason in the early part of the pregnency (before cognitive functions are displayed).

Reply 106

Jonatan

I could not access the article but I beleive you are referring to recent research sugesting the feutus show cognitive functions earlier than previously expected?

Perhaps the time during which you could have an abortion should be shortened, perhaps it should be keot as it is. The only thing I claim is that the development of a human person doesnt happen in the blink of a second and thus you could allow an abortion without reason in the early part of the pregnency (before cognitive functions are displayed).

Yes its an article on the abortion bill which will be put before the commons as a result of new research and improved medical techniques which not only show cognitive functions but result in children born prematurely (within the legal limit for abortion) being able to survive.

Reply 107

Jonatan

The only thing I claim is that the development of a human person doesnt happen in the blink of a second and thus you could allow an abortion without reason in the early part of the pregnency (before cognitive functions are displayed).

I agree with this. The proposal which is going to be put to the commons is that the limit for abortions be shortened to 12 weeks from the current 24 as children have been born after 22 weeks gestation and survive.

Reply 108

material breach

12

an Siarach

How many abortions come about as a result of rape and where the mothers life is at risk?

jackgiraffe said it is never right, in these situations the abortion can be morally justified and in some circumstances is "right"

an Siarach

As to the foetus not having rights well this is a technicality, all it would take to change this is to change the law. In the case of precautions failing (which if all necessary precautions are taken is a ridiculously small chance) i think perhaps theres an argument for abortion, though again i would question why people deem somebodies life to be worth less than 9 months of theirs.

Sorry i dont follow this 2nd bit at all well, could you expand upon it?

Reply 109

Speciez99

jackgiraffe said it is never right, in these situations the abortion can be morally justified and in some circumstances is "right"

The point is - pro-abortionists deliberately played on these incredibly rare events and used them to allow abortions. The original bill was very strict, but due to the nature of law, this bill was slackened to the point where abortions were allowed on demand without any consent from a doctor.

Reply 110

Speciez99

Sorry i dont follow this 2nd bit at all well, could you expand upon it?

The foetus not having rights is based on a technicality, essentially the fact that it is still in the womb. As is being discussed in the commons children have been born after 22 weeks gestation and surivived. Bear this in mind with the fact that the latest you can have an abortion is 24 weeks and surely it can constitute the killing of a human being. The last bit i merely stated i find it rather repellent that people value the life of another person (potential person if youd rather) less than they would value 9 months of their own (particularly when the situation is of their own making).

Reply 111

Unregistered

Abortion must be wrong for the simple reason that once a child is born and visible for the world to see it is murder to kill it. In the womb it is perfectly legal to end the life of a developing embryo simply because this is convenient for their mother. But how can there be a cut off point before which it is acceptable to end a child's life abd after which it is murder to kill them?

Also, research has found that thousands of embryos aborted due to medical concerns over their future health and welfare are wrongly diagnosed,meaning that thousands of mothers each year have a healthy child destroyed due to a doctor's mistake. This cannot be right.

Reply 112

material breach

12

Bigcnee

The point is - pro-abortionists deliberately played on these incredibly rare events and used them to allow abortions. The original bill was very strict, but due to the nature of law, this bill was slackened to the point where abortions were allowed on demand without any consent from a doctor.

i realise that and never said anything different however the person said it was always wrong so i am just rebuffing that claim

Reply 113

randdom

20

Bigcnee

The point is - pro-abortionists deliberately played on these incredibly rare events and used them to allow abortions. The original bill was very strict, but due to the nature of law, this bill was slackened to the point where abortions were allowed on demand without any consent from a doctor.

I am preety sure that you still need two signatures from two doctors to have an abortion but it is just a lot easier to get those signatures now.

Reply 114

neha p

randdom

I am preety sure that you still need two signatures from two doctors to have an abortion but it is just a lot easier to get those signatures now.

you do need two signtures and the reasons have to have a valid point to them.

Reply 115

randdom

I am preety sure that you still need two signatures from two doctors to have an abortion but it is just a lot easier to get those signatures now.

I doubt it. Women just walk into abortion clinics nowadays, and get it done.
Maybe two doctors give their signature, but this is beaurocracy rather than adhering to law.

Reply 116

neha p

you do need reasons have to have a valid point to them.

Simply.. no.

Reply 117

randdom

20

Bigcnee

Simply.. no.

Officially you still need to proove that it will cause you physical or mental damage to carry on with the pregnancy. This is generally not hard to do these days.

Reply 118