The Student Room Group

Computer Science and Maths - Oxford or Cambridge?

So it's the kind of time I need to start making decisions about where I want to apply if I want to go to Oxbridge. With that in mind, I think right now I want to apply for Maths and Computer Science (at Oxford) or Computer Science with Maths (at Cambridge). The major difference is that there is less Maths in the Cambridge course, I am led to believe, since it is a CS course with maths rather than a joint honours course.

I do love maths which is why I want to do it as a joint honours with computer science, which is a field that really interests me and I think would suit me... but anyway this isn't a personal statement or whatever!

I do Further Maths, Physics, History and Chemistry (AS) and am thinking of dropping Chemistry, results-dependent, because I really enjoy History and I think ultimately between the two there's not going to be a lot of difference in applying for this course as long as I still have Further Maths and Physics.

If I did apply, I would probably apply to a college that does require STEP at Cambridge (and if applying to Oxford I would have to do the MAT). I know STEP is harder, but apparently you don't necessarily have to do as well in it because of that? Also, the Oxford page states an intake of 28 while the Cambridge one has no specific data as far as I can see

edit: What I had understood when writing that paragraph I now know is not quite right. Irrespective of which college I applied to (at either) it seems I would have to do the respective admissions test. Additionally Cambridge indicates an intake of 86 overall, the number of which doing Computer Science with Maths is not specified

Bottom line, which one would you say it makes sense to apply for?
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 1
Well somebody missed the Cambridge STEP offer by 1 grade in my year and he still didnt get a place (He got a distinction in 2/3 papers). So i personally dont think they are too lenient with STEP.

I think you already answer your question. You say you like maths, and Oxford offers it with another subject, so what else is there to think about.
Can't help with computer science, but I do maths at Oxford if you want to ask anything about the course.

Cambridge has a better reputation for maths, so it really depends on;
- Whether you prefer maths or CS.
- How good you are at STEP.

I don't know about CS, but the STEP requirements for maths at Cambridge are very high, and not lenient.
do you have all A*s at GSCE? Will you have 90+ ums at AS? If you answer no to the first and yes to the second opt for Cambridge. If you answer yes to the first and no to the second apply to Oxford. If it's yes to both choose the one you like the look of most.

STEP is very hard and for maths you need to do extremely well at STEP to get into Cambridge.
Reply 4
Original post by Jkizer
Well somebody missed the Cambridge STEP offer by 1 grade in my year and he still didnt get a place (He got a distinction in 2/3 papers). So i personally dont think they are too lenient with STEP.

I think you already answer your question. You say you like maths, and Oxford offers it with another subject, so what else is there to think about.


I didn't mean that they were lenient with STEP as a whole, but that in comparison to the MAT they may be more lenient (STEP is A-Level maths and taken at the end of Year 13, MAT is AS-Level maths and taken in November). Nonetheless you make a good point.

Original post by Octohedral
Can't help with computer science, but I do maths at Oxford if you want to ask anything about the course.

Cambridge has a better reputation for maths, so it really depends on;
- Whether you prefer maths or CS.
- How good you are at STEP.

I don't know about CS, but the STEP requirements for maths at Cambridge are very high, and not lenient.


I would say I prefer CS, but it's hardly any more in all truth, though having said that I haven't formally studied it.

Original post by suedonim
do you have all A*s at GSCE? Will you have 90+ ums at AS? If you answer no to the first and yes to the second opt for Cambridge. If you answer yes to the first and no to the second apply to Oxford. If it's yes to both choose the one you like the look of most.

STEP is very hard and for maths you need to do extremely well at STEP to get into Cambridge.


7 A* 4 As at GCSE and I am aiming for that, though I am worried I might miss out on history even though I prefer it to Chemistry (I think my analytical writing has gotten worse since I stopped doing written subjects) :frown:

I guess on balance it probably makes more sense for me to apply to Oxford, easier test (though it's earlier) and I would do a joint honours degree. Thanks for the help, I'm definitely pointing to Oxford now but of course I'm not 100% yet.
Original post by shan2097

7 A* 4 As at GCSE and I am aiming for that, though I am worried I might miss out on history even though I prefer it to Chemistry (I think my analytical writing has gotten worse since I stopped doing written subjects) :frown:

I guess on balance it probably makes more sense for me to apply to Oxford, easier test (though it's earlier) and I would do a joint honours degree. Thanks for the help, I'm definitely pointing to Oxford now but of course I'm not 100% yet.


You'd be pretty sure of an interview at Cambridge, Oxford can make some wierd decisions about who they interview. If you are taking 4 AS then Cambridge look mainly at ums of the 3 most relevant so history wouldn't be a deal breaker. Half the first year of CompSci at Cambridge can be maths but even those who do well at STEP can find it tough at first.

You could always give Oxbridge a miss and apply somewhere like Warwick or Imperial.
Original post by shan2097

I guess on balance it probably makes more sense for me to apply to Oxford, easier test (though it's earlier) and I would do a joint honours degree. Thanks for the help, I'm definitely pointing to Oxford now but of course I'm not 100% yet.


Hi. Delighted to hear you're (probably) planning on applying to us. Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions along the way.

Original post by suedonim
You'd be pretty sure of an interview at Cambridge, Oxford can make some wierd decisions about who they interview.



Perhaps I can shed some light on how we shortlist for interview when it comes to Maths/CompSci at Oxford.

Most candidates who apply to us have broadly speaking similar A Level (or IB or equivalent) expected grades - they're not that helpful to us in distinguishing between candidates. We aptitude test all candidates and interview the majority: so the personal statement is less important in getting to know you than it is for some other universities.

We don't have any requirements when it comes to GCSEs.

The MAT is the key component in deciding who is interviewed. All our candidates sit the same MAT test, on the same day. (Different questions for different degrees.) That allows us to more fairly compare between students. Once the test results are in we draw a rough line in the sand: it's normally about the average score.

Pretty much everyone above that line is going to get interviewed. (The exception is where, for example they are taking an international qualification that we don't accept, or where it's clear that they are unable to meet our standard conditional offer.)

We then look carefully just below that line. The tutors have freedom to then additionally call for interview someone who, for example, has done particularly well at GCSE compared to everyone else in their school, or someone who has compelling contextual information but just missed that line.

Roughly speaking, Cambridge interview more students per place than we do, and make more offers; expecting some to fail their STEP conditions. At Oxford, we interview around 3 candidates for every place. If we make an offer, we know the candidate is smart: we expect that they'll make the conditions of the offer (eg get the A*AA at A Level). So we don't over-offer to the same extent.

I'd recommend that any candidate thinking of applying to us or Cambridge look carefully at the course content/structure of each course, and use that as a basis for making a decision either way. Rather than trying to second-guess the application process.

Hope that's helpful.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Oxford Computer Science Dept

We don't have any requirements when it comes to GCSEs. .


Your admission stats used to include the average number of A*s at GSCE for those who were admitted. Can't find it now - so perhaps you'd care to say what that was last year?
Original post by suedonim
Your admission stats used to include the average number of A*s at GSCE for those who were admitted. Can't find it now - so perhaps you'd care to say what that was last year?


Hi.
We don't normally publish A* data on a course-by-course, year-by-year basis. Our numbers are pretty small and quite a few of our students (especially those from overseas) won't have done any GCSEs at all. So it's not always the most useful of information. (People often assume it's a requirement rather than an average, and it can vary from year to year.)

I've just taken a quick look at the data for the last admissions round for our three CompSci degrees. Eye-balling it I would say about 6-7A*s is the average. But there's a few successful candidates in there with less than 3, and others with more than 10. So it's quite a broad mix.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 9
Original post by Oxford Computer Science Dept

Hi. Delighted to hear you're (probably) planning on applying to us. Feel free to get in touch if you have any questions along the way.

Thank you! I certainly will if I feel I need to ask a question.

Original post by Oxford Computer Science Dept

The MAT is the key component in deciding who is interviewed. All our candidates sit the same MAT test, on the same day. (Different questions for different degrees.) That allows us to more fairly compare between students. Once the test results are in we draw a rough line in the sand: it's normally about the average score.

Pretty much everyone above that line is going to get interviewed. (The exception is where, for example they are taking an international qualification that we don't accept, or where it's clear that they are unable to meet our standard conditional offer.)

We then look carefully just below that line. The tutors have freedom to then additionally call for interview someone who, for example, has done particularly well at GCSE compared to everyone else in their school, or someone who has compelling contextual information but just missed that line.

Roughly speaking, Cambridge interview more students per place than we do, and make more offers; expecting some to fail their STEP conditions. At Oxford, we interview around 3 candidates for every place. If we make an offer, we know the candidate is smart: we expect that they'll make the conditions of the offer (eg get the A*AA at A Level). So we don't over-offer to the same extent.


This is interesting, we weren't quite told this at a talk we had (but then it was from a Cambridge admissions tutor who was talking about both, so I suppose it's to be expected).

Original post by Oxford Computer Science Dept

I'd recommend that any candidate thinking of applying to us or Cambridge look carefully at the course content/structure of each course, and use that as a basis for making a decision either way. Rather than trying to second-guess the application process.

Hope that's helpful.


Oh certainly that is and will be my main basis in deciding between the two (and of course the other universities I apply to) but it is useful to know how the processes differ specifically for each Uni, as well as what others think.
Original post by shan2097
This is interesting, we weren't quite told this at a talk we had (but then it was from a Cambridge admissions tutor who was talking about both, so I suppose it's to be expected).



The Cambridge person probably talked about the general position for applicants. Cambridge is good at choosing who will obtain (or exceed) it's grade requirements and therefore doesn't usually make a lot more offers than it has places. The exception is for maths where first the competition is very much international and some people turn down offers for other universities like Harvard or MIT, secondly people are nervous about STEP so don't always take up offers and thirdly school performance isn't a good guide to who will thrive on the course but STEP is. All universities make more offers than they have places because they don't know how many offers will be accepted or met. Oxford turn down a lot of people with good MAT tests on the basis of interview, while Cambridge let the test results decide who is admitted. So Oxford is a good choice if you lack confidence in your mathematical ability but are good at interview and Cambridge a good choice if you are confident about your academic ability but less confident at interview.
Original post by shan2097
So it's the kind of time I need to start making decisions about where I want to apply if I want to go to Oxbridge. With that in mind, I think right now I want to apply for Maths and Computer Science (at Oxford) or Computer Science with Maths (at Cambridge). The major difference is that there is less Maths in the Cambridge course, I am led to believe, since it is a CS course with maths rather than a joint honours course.

I do love maths which is why I want to do it as a joint honours with computer science, which is a field that really interests me and I think would suit me... but anyway this isn't a personal statement or whatever!

[...]

Bottom line, which one would you say it makes sense to apply for?
Picking the right course is quite important - you'll be spending quite a lot of hours studying, and without quite a bit of motivation/enjoyment then you'll find it tough.

The key question for you is how you feel about university level maths. It's quite a different beast from A level: much more proof, much more formal, etc. That might be something you need to look into more.

If you come to study Maths & CS at Oxford, most people seem to find the Maths part the most difficult and time consuming element. That's fine if you really like maths. But if not, then it's probably not the course for you.

Cambridge's course sounds like it could be a great match for you, but the sort of opposite consideration applies. I believe the first year would be almost as maths dominated as Oxford's Maths&CS, but then after the first year I believe there is no maths. That might be great for you, it might not be. It seems slightly strange to me to have such a stark contrast between the years of the course.

When I was applying my primary interest was CS, although maths was important too. I think that's similar to your position. But I realised that the Maths&CS courses contained more maths than I really wanted, and the CS course (at least at Oxford) contained rather a lot of maths anyway. So I'd encourage you to also consider straight Computer Science. (or even, as I've ended up studying, Computer Science and Philosophy)
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 12
Original post by shan2097
x


It's a bit weird how similar our situations are. I'm doing FM (full maths A-level this year), Physics, Chem, and French and I'm looking to drop Chemistry after AS too.

I was actually looking at the same course yesterday, and it sounds really good except that I'm not sure what maths at degree level is like. What makes it even worse, I don't really know how much the maths content in CS differs from the content in a straight maths course.

I really enjoy the maths A-level so far, and most of the time I've been leaning towards a normal CS course. I guess what I need to sort out first (and you might too, I don't know) is to look more into how deep the courses go in terms of maths and see whether or not I would actually prefer the non-mathsy CS content.

Plus if I want to be thinking about something like this I have to actually be revising for my AS :s-smilie:
Original post by Karoel
It's a bit weird how similar our situations are. I'm doing FM (full maths A-level this year), Physics, Chem, and French and I'm looking to drop Chemistry after AS too.

I was actually looking at the same course yesterday, and it sounds really good except that I'm not sure what maths at degree level is like. What makes it even worse, I don't really know how much the maths content in CS differs from the content in a straight maths course.

I really enjoy the maths A-level so far, and most of the time I've been leaning towards a normal CS course. I guess what I need to sort out first (and you might too, I don't know) is to look more into how deep the courses go in terms of maths and see whether or not I would actually prefer the non-mathsy CS content.

Plus if I want to be thinking about something like this I have to actually be revising for my AS :s-smilie:


Let me try and help with that. Computer Science is a mathematical subject. It uses Mathematics to reason about computers, computer programmes and computation.

At Oxford, we have several mathematical courses to teach you the mathematical techniques you need. Some are traditional Maths courses: Linear Algebra, Calculus and Probability. And some are more oriented towards Computer Science: Discrete Maths and Logic.

But in addition, the use of Mathematics pervades all courses. When you write a program, you are expected to use Mathematics to help with the construction, to explain it and justify its correctness, and/or to analyse its running time.

I suggest you look at some of our web pages, starting at http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/ugadmissions/why_oxford/whatiscs.html. In particular, you might like to have a play with GeomLab.

HTH

Gavin
Reply 14
Original post by gavinlowe
Let me try and help with that. Computer Science is a mathematical subject. It uses Mathematics to reason about computers, computer programmes and computation.

At Oxford, we have several mathematical courses to teach you the mathematical techniques you need. Some are traditional Maths courses: Linear Algebra, Calculus and Probability. And some are more oriented towards Computer Science: Discrete Maths and Logic.

But in addition, the use of Mathematics pervades all courses. When you write a program, you are expected to use Mathematics to help with the construction, to explain it and justify its correctness, and/or to analyse its running time.

I suggest you look at some of our web pages, starting at http://www.cs.ox.ac.uk/ugadmissions/why_oxford/whatiscs.html. In particular, you might like to have a play with GeomLab.

HTH

Gavin

Thank you so much. I really love the idea of having to think mathematically about what you write, so this is very reassuring. I'm guessing the amount of maths involved in CS courses isn't as high in most other unis.

I actually had to use GeomLab at an open day once, but I didn't really get into it in the hour that I got to use it. I think we had to tile pictures of stickmen/women and trees, sometimes rotating them and whatnot. Do you use GeomLab in the actual course or is it more like an introductory thing?
Original post by Karoel

I actually had to use GeomLab at an open day once, but I didn't really get into it in the hour that I got to use it. I think we had to tile pictures of stickmen/women and trees, sometimes rotating them and whatnot. Do you use GeomLab in the actual course or is it more like an introductory thing?


No, you don't use GeomLab in the course. It's a system that a colleague produced to introduce some of the ideas of Computer Science. You would see a lot of those ideas again in the course.

Gavin

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