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Opening up about "worthless degrees" and their detrimental effects - STEM

This thread is gonna hurt some people, but it will hopefully benefit many people choosing what to study at University. Please note that University is not "the only way forward" - a lot of degrees nowadays have lost their worth because of the vast amount of people with them. The trades are excellent and do not necessarily require a degree (Plumbing, Building etc). Even newer trades such as Web Design and Programming are worthwhile career paths.

Please bear in mind when referring to a subject, I am referring to a University degree in that subject. For example, many people of all backgrounds (engineers to politicians to zoologists) enjoy music. But for the AVERAGE individual a music degree will not financially benefit you! That is the key - I do not hate History, Geography or Media, and neither do many STEM graduates. It also seems that much of the following doesn't apply to Oxbridge graduates - their degrees are accepted everywhere (which I don't believe is the best idea)

This thread is an echo thread of "Telling kids to "follow their passion" and "do what they love" is horrendous advice" started by bertstare.

It's so important that we stop telling our youth to "study what they love" or "follow your dreams" - People are not going to pay you to follow your dreams. Worthless degrees are degrees that lead to low employment prospects - especially outside academia.

An example of a few:


English
Religious Studies
Womens' Studies
Geography
History
Sociology
Media



If you study/have studied these degrees - it's not the end of the world. Employers will still value you as an individual. This is often important in interviews.

But as for the aforementioned degrees, why are these degrees "worthless"? Well it's simple - they don't provide much for society (except research) and do not demonstrate skills employers are looking for. There isn't a huge demand for graduates of these fields, compared to more practical degrees like Computer Science. The key is maths, if it contains maths then it's likely a worthwhile degree.

Opening up in society about these dangers:

We need to ensure that students picking their A-levels are fully aware of University degrees. This includes being brutally honest with students - you may love English, perhaps it's your "passion", but is it going to support you in the future financially? Looking at unemployment figures, probably not. People are afraid to tell their friends that what they want to study is worthless. Teachers are afraid to tell their students that pursuing a degree in Media with African Studies unfortunately won't land them in a stable financial career after graduation. Why? Because the truth hurts - there is virtually zero demand for "Media with African Studies" graduates!"

The importance of STEM:

Science Technology Engineering and Maths. A degree in any of these fields will increase employment prospects (see here and here). And for anyone who argues that "employment prospects" are not the sole reason for going to university - You're spending a LOT of money doing something to will NOT help you much financially in the future. Whatever you think, you will eventually need to earn a living and support yourself financially.

Not all STEM degrees were created equally - Environmental engineering, Nuclear Engineering and Biology are examples of degrees which despite being STEM, have really quite poor employment prospects.

Another interesting point is women in STEM. Women are equally as good as men in STEM - gender shouldn't be an issue. But why is it that often less than 1 in 5 engineer graduates are female?

These points are addressed in more detail in a book called "Worthless" by Aaron Clarey
(edited 9 years ago)

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Reply 1
What is with this forum and their failure to understand that people do what they want to do? If people end up in bad jobs with their "useless" degree choices then so be it. Besides, not all humanities subjects are useless (such as History) due the transferrable skills they provide in a degree.
Ha, don't be silly. Without all these non-STEM subjects the universities would be bankrupt; and then there would be no STEM subjects at all.
Let people have their interests ffs. I don't like that this forum tries to ram STEM down people's throats.

I'm a Maths student myself and really enjoy the subject, but if someone loves English, let them be. You do your STEM degree and become a corporate bigshot, its not for everyone though man.

EDIT: Don't annoy with your 0 powered reps plebs. :mad:
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 4
Not everybody is motivated by money. Some folk don't want to follow the formulaic lifestyle of job, car, mortgage, marriage, kids, life insurance, pension plan, blah, blah, blah. For some, the pursuit of knowledge is far greater a driving force than the aforementioned.
Reply 5
I was completely anti-university, my college course was pressuring us to apply to University at the end and I was one of very few who was opposed to the idea. I would say I was fully aware and educated on the negatives of studying a so called "Mickey Mouse" degree in film or television, and I kept posing all the questions to my friends who decided on going such as "why waste all that money when the degree is worthless", "even with a degree you will likely start at the bottom" etc, eventually I was converted, and I will summarize the new perspective they provided me with.

In this day and age a large selection of degrees are worthless, even some often considered to require a higher level of thinking or a specialist and essential skill to society. You will find some studying Law struggle for work due to the over-saturation of aspiring lawyers graduating, almost anyone can get in a University and a degree does not hold the same value as it once did (of course it depends on the degree and job at hand). I know I could find work in the television industry without a degree, however I'm not going to University 100% for the degree, personally I am going to network, develop a greater understanding of the industry and my abilities before I get my foot in the door and because I want to make use of the fantastic resources and equipment provided. I received an offer for the best TV course in the country, I cant wait to develop my skills come September.

And generally, moving to a new town or city for University is surely a life changing experience, you rely on yourself and nobody else, a great preparation for the "real world" whether it be financially or work commitment. And lets not forget the good times, it is definitely a lot of money, but in my eyes if you work your hardest, reach your goals and have fun, it will be money well spent
Reply 6
I still don't understand why people create forums like these - it's pointless.

At the end of the day, if people don't want to do something, then they won't.

I've applied to do English for university in September, and regardless of what anyone else says, I'm still going to do it. Money doesn't motivate me, and sure, some people call me stupid, but I can't help what I love doing.

I don't want to survive, I want to live.

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To be honest the fact that you're arguing that these subjects are worthless is much less of a reflection of their worth (anyone who knows anything about those subjects, i.e. clearly not you, would have some idea of this) and much more a reflection of your own ignorance. Your opinion doesn't really mean anything because the fact is these subjects are well established - they aren't specialised in particular professional fields however unlike many STEM subjects. But the level of ignorance in your post is ironically a testament to the need of non-STEM degrees.

I mean for instance, you must be really bad at social sciences (and just have a poor understanding of society in general), because you seem to think the country would be in a better position if we all did STEM degrees. As well as your apparent assumption that everyone has the same aims as you. Honestly, this is a stereotypical post that some pseudo-intellectual loser STEM student makes in an attempt to claim some sort of superiority.

Also, in contrast, geographers have a wide range of qualitative, quantitative and research skills - yet branded by you as lacking skills that employers want. FYI, a year previously the average salary of a Cambridge geography grad was above that of a natural sciences grad. So even within this framework of your corporate bull****, your argument is far from solid for the individual.
(edited 9 years ago)
Reply 8
I generally find that anybody who is confident in their eyes, yet obviously arrogant with their level of "superior" intelligence, are usually not that intelligent at all.

You get clever people across all fields, due to different circumstances people may not have a job or field of study which reflects their maximum potential. There are a lot of people I knew in high-school who were A* students in maths, I was aiming for a C aha, but when it came down to a certain general knowledge about the world we live in, they had a child like innocence to their ignorance.
(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by Bulbasaur
To be honest the fact that you're arguing that these subjects are worthless is much less of a reflection of their worth (anyone who knows anything about those subjects, i.e. clearly not you, would have some idea of this) and much more a reflection of your own ignorance. .


Thank you for writing this. You have summed up this point perfectly. It's always ironic when some humanities-hating ignoramus displays to the rest of the world just how limited and narrow-minded their brains are.
Reply 10
Original post by arson_fire
If gender studies is your passion then go for it.


Hello can you help me with my assignment?

Is a bull male or female? I do not know how I can tell the difference :confused:

Spoiler

What's "worth?" Why do employer expectations matter? Should financial stability really be the most important end goal for a person? Does our current structure of employment and economy really make sense? How did our contemporary social structure come to be, and are those things we value now--which we know for a fact haven't always been valued at all, much less in the same way--truly the thing that, objectively, matters most? How can we act, think, and live differently?

Whoops sorry for polluting your thread with worthless humanistic questions
Original post by hellodave5
I wouldn't worry about the direct provision of current jobs in the area too much if you're really into it - its always very applicable to careers such as in the police force if you would be into something like that. Admittedly, being more of a bio guy I don't know that much about the area.

I would always recommend following your dream :smile:... as long as it's not completely out there.

I'm from Sheffield, so wanted to stay home rather than going and spending lots on living expenses. Sheffield University didn't want me, so here I am at Sheffield Hallam :biggrin:. Lovely place in honesty.
About to do Clinical and Cognitive Neuroscience starting Sept, luckily the course fits my interests perfectly.


100% serious is Sheffield Hallam a Muslim uni?


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Original post by SerLorasTyrell
100% serious is Sheffield Hallam a Muslim uni?


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What do you mean by is it a Muslim uni?
It's one of the largest education providers within the UK, so there is rather a large mix of people. I would say a relatively good Muslim population - I know there is a society and prayer rooms to accommodate.
Reply 14
Original post by brownsugar-xx
What's everyone's view on a psychology degree? And what about a joint psychology and French degree?


I don't understand these sorts of strange niche combinations.
Original post by CJKay
I don't understand these sorts of strange niche combinations.

It's purely because i like both subjects and would like to take them further. Who knows though i might not like studying french at uni and drop it after 1-2nd year.
Original post by SerLorasTyrell
100% serious is Sheffield Hallam a Muslim uni?


You perhaps want to go to Sheffield Haram, which is anything but.
Though my thread wasn't really about STEM vs non STEM, but in for the ****storm anyway
STEM graduates usually have higher salaries than non STEM.

In terms of scientific and technological human development, STEM is more valuable.
Reply 19
Liberal arts should be the only subjects studied (and yes I do include the sciences and mathematics as part of that), there just isn't enough material on many of these subjects (media etc) to warrant a degree... it's just a waste of time and money.

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