King's College London Reputation Watch

CanuckKid
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I'm an international student, in Canadian high school right now, considering studying law in the UK. I've been offered a spot at KCL with a 27000 pound scholarship, one of the full Dickson Poon ones (that's over three years, not annually),

I've also been given offers to all the top Canadian business schools. I applied to business in Canada as law is purely a graduate study in North America.

What I'm trying to assess is the strength of KCL's reputation. I'm trying not to be a "reputation whore" but since a foreign law degree is not particularly usefully, a school with prestige is kind of important.

My question is this: just how good is KCL's reputation in the UK? It's held in very good repute in North America. Also, what are some schools in North America that you feel it is comparable to?
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iamyourmum
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I think it's on the same tier as the top UC schools in North America (Berkeley, USC and UCLA), Duke, Georgetown, Washington St. Louis etc.
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Baron of Sealand
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They seem to have a better reputation overall than on TSR.

If you ask me, I'd say, in the UK:

Oxbridge
UCL Imperial LSE
King's Edinburgh Durham

I'd say it's like Berkeley in the States.
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CanuckKid
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(Original post by clh_hilary)
They seem to have a better reputation overall than on TSR.

If you ask me, I'd say, in the UK:

Oxbridge
UCL Imperial LSE
King's Edinburgh Durham

I'd say it's like Berkeley in the States.
Thanks for replying.

I feel like much of TSR overemphasizes the League Tables as they have not yet been to uni, though I'm one to talk.

It's funny, most people in Canada will have heard of the U of London's and Oxbridge, but not other great schools like Warwick and Durham. I happen to have heard of Durham, and applied there as my fifth choice, though for my own part, if I was paying full international tuition it was Oxbridge or bust.

Anyway, would you say that's a comparison for law or in general?
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Baron of Sealand
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(Original post by CanuckKid)
Thanks for replying.

I feel like much of TSR overemphasizes the League Tables as they have not yet been to uni, though I'm one to talk.

It's funny, most people in Canada will have heard of the U of London's and Oxbridge, but not other great schools like Warwick and Durham. I happen to have heard of Durham, and applied there as my fifth choice, though for my own part, if I was paying full international tuition it was Oxbridge or bust.

Anyway, would you say that's a comparison for law or in general?
General. I don't know about law.

'University of London' is a bunch of colleges though. If they haven't heard of any of them then I don't think they really have 'heard' of it. I'd say UCL/Imperial > LSE/IoE > KCL > SOAS > Queen Mary > Royal Holloway.

TSR tend to downplay KCL for some reason. Some said it's the same level as Nottingham and below Warwick.
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CanuckKid
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(Original post by clh_hilary)
General. I don't know about law.

'University of London' is a bunch of colleges though. If they haven't heard of any of them then I don't think they really have 'heard' of it. I'd say UCL/Imperial > LSE/IoE > KCL > SOAS > Queen Mary > Royal Holloway.

TSR tend to downplay KCL for some reason. Some said it's the same level as Nottingham and below Warwick.

Yeah, by "U of London's" I mean to upper University of London schools, IE LSE, UCL, KCL, and sometimes Imperial, though they are no longer affiliated.

I think that has more to do with the League tables than anything else. Do you have any idea why the discrepancy between the UK and World tables for KCL?
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Baron of Sealand
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(Original post by CanuckKid)
Yeah, by "U of London's" I mean to upper University of London schools, IE LSE, UCL, KCL, and sometimes Imperial, though they are no longer affiliated.

I think that has more to do with the League tables than anything else. Do you have any idea why the discrepancy between the UK and World tables for KCL?
Yeah, Imperial is no longer a part of it. And IoE (No 1 in education globally) will merge with UCL so UCL will probably go up further.

There is a discrepancy between the UK and global tables for KCL?

It's not just about the league tables, it's also about it being in London, being a part of University of London, being very old, and being famous.
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CanuckKid
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(Original post by clh_hilary)
Yeah, Imperial is no longer a part of it. And IoE (No 1 in education globally) will merge with UCL so UCL will probably go up further.

There is a discrepancy between the UK and global tables for KCL?

It's not just about the league tables, it's also about it being in London, being a part of University of London, being very old, and being famous.
Yeah, league tables put KCL at 20+ always, whereas QS has it at 19th, and THE at 39th, those being in the world as opposed to just the UK.
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MichelBraga
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(Original post by CanuckKid)
Yeah, league tables put KCL at 20+ always, whereas QS has it at 19th, and THE at 39th, those being in the world as opposed to just the UK.
Observing some behavioural patterns and reading about long-term education policies for the UK, I understand now why KCL is so downgraded at TSR and at the League Tables. There's really a hatred coming from most the UK students about the KCL reputation and its profile (expensive central London Uni filled with posh kids and conservative tradition), so don't mind those rankings. It's true that it has a considerable amount of posh kids, but it compensates with a great student community; in fact, one of the best in the country.

Also, the recent superior education policy for the UK is based on the decentralization of university education, in an attempt to spread high quality teaching for all the territory, so there's a strong campaign to value good interior unis like Warwick, Manchester, Bath, Nottingham, etc...

In the UK, like someone said above, it is ranked like this:

Oxbridge
UCL - LSE - Imperial
KCL - Edinburgh - Durham (Warwick and Manchester in some subjects).

KCL is one of the most traditional unis in the world, with high entry standards (Congrats!), one of the highest job prospects in Europe and with, in the last few years, an innovative insight in education.
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MichelBraga
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And before someone starts questioning, I'm probably accepting my offer to study at UCL.
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cambio wechsel
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(Original post by MichelBraga)
I understand now why KCL is so downgraded at TSR and at the League Tables. There's really a hatred coming from most the UK students about the KCL reputation and its profile (expensive central London Uni filled with posh kids and conservative tradition)
This doesn't make sense to me because why that one? Why not UCL or the LSE, both of which have the same central London location and a similar socio-economic profile among the entry cohort but are top of the pops in the league tables and popular perceptions?

Sensibly, I think a conspiracy theory/politics of envy account for why KCL is undervalued in the UK is going to need more meat on its bones than this.

(Original post by clh_hilary)

'University of London' is a bunch of colleges though. If they haven't heard of any of them then I don't think they really have 'heard' of it. I'd say UCL/Imperial > LSE/IoE > KCL > SOAS > Queen Mary > Royal Holloway.
As well as the including of Imperial, the placing of the LSE where it is looks odd. That's a first-tier institution on any metric.

And why include the IoE? Or why include it but not LSHTM or RVC or LBS or RAM or the Courtauld? Again, these are among the very best (in the world) at what they do.
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sellerofdreams
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I guess international reputation depends on where you are as well. In malaysia, kings has a good reputation, but it's not considered as good as Warwick. Lse and ucl are considered the best after oxbridge.

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Cutmeloose
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(Original post by MichelBraga)
There's really a hatred coming from most the UK students about the KCL reputation and its profile (expensive central London Uni filled with posh kids and conservative tradition), so don't mind those rankings. It's true that it has a considerable amount of posh kids, but it compensates with a great
student community; in fact, one of the best in the country.
Almost every top ten university in the UK is filled with posh kids and has a 'conservative tradition'. Durham, St Andrews, Oxbridge, Bristol are all as posh as KCL if not posher!

How are you validating your statements? your way of writing leads me to believe that you're an intentional pre-uni. I study in London, and 'student community is not something I've often heard attributed to KCL. Many feel the student body is fractured, and due to the nature of London, there is no close knit campus environment.


Also, the recent superior education policy for the UK is based on the decentralization of university education, in an attempt to spread high quality teaching for all the territory, so there's a strong campaign to value good interior unis like Warwick, Manchester, Bath, Nottingham, etc...
Lol this is just ridiculous.

In the UK, like someone said above, it is ranked like this:

Oxbridge
UCL - LSE - Imperial
KCL - Edinburgh - Durham (Warwick and Manchester in some subjects).
For Law, considering that's what the thread is about.
It's more like this :
Oxbridge
LSE, UCL (possibly KCL)
Durham, Bristol, Warwick, Nottingham

It's in a specific order.

For general rankings/prospects

Oxbridge
LSE, ICL, UCL
Warwick, Durham, Bristol,

KCL is one of the most traditional unis in the world, with high entry standards (Congrats!), one of the highest job prospects in Europe and with, in the last few years, an innovative insight in education.
Entry standards at Kings really are not that high.. You could count the amount of courses which require A*AA+ on one hand.
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CanuckKid
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(Original post by Cutmeloose)
Almost every top ten university in the UK is filled with posh kids and has a 'conservative tradition'. Durham, St Andrews, Oxbridge, Bristol are all as posh as KCL if not posher!

How are you validating your statements? your way of writing leads me to believe that you're an intentional pre-uni. I study in London, and 'student community is not something I've often heard attributed to KCL. Many feel the student body is fractured, and due to the nature of London, there is no close knit campus environment.




Lol this is just ridiculous.



For Law, considering that's what the thread is about.
It's more like this :
Oxbridge
LSE, UCL (possibly KCL)
Durham, Bristol, Warwick, Nottingham

It's in a specific order.

For general rankings/prospects

Oxbridge
LSE, ICL, UCL
Warwick, Durham, Bristol,



Entry standards at Kings really are not that high.. You could count the amount of courses with require A*AA+ on one hand.
See, this is kinda of what I was talking about, people are too focused on "ranking." We all know what the ranking's say, but I take them with a grain of salt. What I'm trying to figure out is what KCL is actually considered prestige wise. As in, is it on the same level as UC Berkeley, as some on this thread suggested? NYU? Brown? To use universities from my home and native land, University of Toronto or McGill or UBC?

I use North American schools because they are the ones I am most familiar with.
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Cutmeloose
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(Original post by CanuckKid)
See, this is kinda of what I was talking about, people are too focused on "ranking." We all know what the ranking's say, but I take them with a grain of salt. What I'm trying to figure out is what KCL is actually considered prestige wise. As in, is it on the same level as UC Berkeley, as some on this thread suggested? NYU? Brown? To use universities from my home and native land, University of Toronto or McGill or UBC?

I use North American schools because they are the ones I am most familiar with.
I don't know if rankings mean less in North America, but here they take into account job prospects and entry requirements, so it's only natural to consider them. They also often generally correlate with people's perceptions of universities.

KCL does not open any doors which aren't open to Warwick/Bristol/Durham kids, however, the same can't be confidently said about Oxbridge/LSE/UCL.

It's hard to say, I'd probably say close to NYC since there are similarities between the fact that Columbia > NYC and LSE/UCL/Imperial > KCL. I'm assuming that NYC's reputation may slightly deflate if it were not to be in New York and I reckon it's the same with KCL. I'd say UC Berkeley is better than KCL, but I don't pretend to know all that much about US education.

I'd have thought Berkeley was on the same level as LSE/UCL.
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CanuckKid
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(Original post by Cutmeloose)
I don't know if rankings mean less in North America, but here they take into account job prospects and entry requirements, so it's only natural to consider them. They also often generally correlate with people's perceptions of universities.

KCL does not open any doors which aren't open to Warwick/Bristol/Durham kids, however, the same can't be confidently said about Oxbridge/LSE/UCL.

It's hard to say, I'd probably say close to NYC since there are similarities between the fact that Columbia > NYC and LSE/UCL/Imperial > KCL. I'm assuming that NYC's reputation may slightly deflate if it were not to be in New York and I reckon it's the same with KCL. I'd say UC Berkeley is better than KCL, but I don't pretend to know all that much about US education.

I'd have thought Berkeley was on the same level as LSE/UCL.
By they way, while I'm sure they are great schools, Durham, Bristol, Warwick, and Nottingham are all virtually unheard of in Canada. I suppose it might be a mix of age (though Durham's quite old) and the program specific nature of some of these schools IE Notts for law. Similarly, you may have heard of UofT or McGill, though you probably haven't heard of Queen's or Western, and those two have the two best business programs in Canada


(Original post by Cutmeloose)
I don't know if rankings mean less in North America, but here they take into account job prospects and entry requirements, so it's only natural to consider them.
Going to call bull**** on this. In fact, if one goals to the league tables and clicks on the "Graduate Prospects" tab, you will find that the order is completely changed, with KCL outranking Oxbridge, ICL, UCL, and in fact coming second, though they come 30th on the tables. Oxbridge outranks KCL on the same tables, and they are certainly better schools, however what is quite clear is that employers don't care about league tables. Why should they? Do you really believe that employers actually base their selection of candidates on a series of criterium which include a student survey (this is just silly), and a research assesment(why should they care)?
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Cutmeloose
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(Original post by CanuckKid)
By they way, while I'm sure they are great schools, Durham, Bristol, Warwick, and Nottingham are all virtually unheard of in Canada. I suppose it might be a mix of age (though Durham's quite old) and the program specific nature of some of these schools IE Notts for law. Similarly, you may have heard of UofT or McGill, though you probably haven't heard of Queen's or Western, and those two have the two best business programs in Canada

Well, Warwick and Nottingham are well respected in Asia and areas of Europe.



Going to call bull**** on this. In fact, if one goals to the league tables and clicks on the "Graduate Prospects" tab, you will find that the order is completely changed, with KCL outranking Oxbridge, ICL, UCL, and in fact coming second, though they come 30th on the tables. Oxbridge outranks KCL on the same tables, and they are certainly better schools, however what is quite clear is that employers don't care about league tables. Why should they? Do you really believe that employers actually base their selection of candidates on a series of criterium which include a student survey (this is just silly), and a research assesment(why should they care)?
Fair enough on the employment prospects, my mistake. I'm a student in London, and I'm just being honest when I say that King's just does not match up to the top three London colleges and in some sectors the likes of Warwick.

The people who do the initial 'sifting' of applications usually work in HR, so yes they do often resort to league tables. The attention that we get here at LSE and from what I hear at UCL at career fairs is considerably more than at KCL which is probably closer to QMUL than LSE in that regard.

What kind of employers are you referring to, just to clear things up, because the sort of careers which I have looked into sees Kings lacking the presence you'd expect from a so called 'top London college'
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TheGuy117
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(Original post by Cutmeloose)
Almost every top ten university in the UK is filled with posh kids and has a 'conservative tradition'. Durham, St Andrews, Oxbridge, Bristol are all as posh as KCL if not posher!

How are you validating your statements? your way of writing leads me to believe that you're an intentional pre-uni. I study in London, and 'student community is not something I've often heard attributed to KCL. Many feel the student body is fractured, and due to the nature of London, there is no close knit campus environment.

Lol this is just ridiculous.

For Law, considering that's what the thread is about.
It's more like this :
Oxbridge
LSE, UCL (possibly KCL)
Durham, Bristol, Warwick, Nottingham

It's in a specific order.

For general rankings/prospects

Oxbridge
LSE, ICL, UCL
Warwick, Durham, Bristol,




Entry standards at Kings really are not that high.. You could count the amount of courses which require A*AA+ on one hand.
The students are pretty posh here to be honest. http://www.studentbeans.com/student-...eague2169.html

Edit: Forgot to add this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...s.html?image=4


As a KCL student, I can assure you there is a very strong sense of community within at least my campus and a fairly decent sense of community between all campuses combined.

"Possibly"? King's is world renowned for Law.

Explain this then: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...?frame=2334361. Also, where is your evidence for this? The rankings have always been hazy after UCL.

So? I could say that about almost all unis bar Oxbridge and Imperial. LSE and UCL also have a fair amount of A*AA+ courses.

...wasted enough time here, going back to revision now.
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Cutmeloose
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(Original post by TheGuy117)
The students are pretty posh here to be honest. http://www.studentbeans.com/student-...eague2169.html


Oxford, Cambridge, Durham, UCL, Bristol, Exeter, Imperial, St Andrews, Edinburgh, Nottingham and LSE all above it. So thank you very much for supporting my point. The university is not any 'posher' than average and definitely not soooo posh that it becomes a source of hatred.


As a KCL student, I can assure you there is a very strong sense of community within at least my campus and a fairly decent sense of community between all campuses combined.

Fair enough, just passing on what I've heard from some KCL friends.

"Possibly"? King's is world renowned for Law.

I study Law, and I'm aware of it's reputation. I was just accounting for employment prospects where they are not all that much better at KCL than say Durham. KCL's is marginally less targeted than LSE and UCL in the legal industry.

Explain this then: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...?frame=2334361. Also, where is your evidence for this? The rankings have always been hazy after UCL.

Well City and QMUL are also in the top ten. 8 out of 10 are from London. Pretty hard to make a judgement without further evidence. You're right on the rankings, but Durham, Warwick and St Andrews are almost always within the next three slots.

So? I could say that about almost all unis bar Oxbridge and Imperial. LSE and UCL also have a fair amount of A*AA+ courses.

Did you even read the post that I replied to? The poster stated that KCL has 'high' entry standards when in reality they probably average out as lower than Warwick and Durham. Aside from Law, what other courses have an A*AA requirement. I just checked and pretty sure it's none which is fairly astounding..please correct me if I'm mistaken. Warwick/Durham has probably at least 5 or more.

...wasted enough time here, going back to revision now.
no one asked you to reply pal. No point running away before your points are rebutted.
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CanuckKid
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You're a student in London? How is it? What Uni are you at? Just asking, since I'm trying to figure out what studying in London is actually like. The other university is in a relatively small city/ town in the middle of nowhere, so it's pretty different than studying in London.


(Original post by Cutmeloose)

The people who do the initial 'sifting' of applications usually work in HR, so yes they do often resort to league tables. The attention that we get here at LSE and from what I hear at UCL at career fairs is considerably more than at KCL which is probably closer to QMUL than LSE in that regard.
'
This seems unrealistic. If you're sifting, you're looking at Grades, ECs, ect. The only way a school really comes in is in a "all thing's being equal time situation. Really, do you think they take the 2:1 or 2:2 from LSE or UCL over a 1st from KCL?

I was referring to the League Table's career prospects ranking, the Guardian to be specific. My interest is obviously in law careers myself.

http://www.theguardian.com/education...gue-table-2014

Click "Career Prospects" on the far right.
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