Herbal medicine? Watch

Anonymous #1
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My sis has recently started taking homoeopathic herbal medicine for her rheumatoid arthritis she's only 19. She has also stopped taking medicine prescribed from the hospital however, since she's been taking the herbal medicine its in fact gone a lot worse her pain is increasing and just two days ago her jaws were hurting in the mouth.

why is this happening I mean its suppose to decrease right? top of that her exams are starting this Monday need advice

thanks
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Mushi_master
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Stopping your prescribed medicine to take unproven and potentially unsafe herbal products is a very unwise thing to do, the medication for rheumatoid arthritis is essential in preventing worsening of the condition and developing nasty complications. I highly recommend against this and that your sister goes to her GP asap.

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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by Mushi_master)
Stopping your prescribed medicine to take unproven and potentially unsafe herbal products is a very unwise thing to do, the medication for rheumatoid arthritis is essential in preventing worsening of the condition and developing nasty complications. I highly recommend against this and that your sister goes to her GP asap.

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^ This.
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Anonymous #1
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he herbal medicine is called berberis vulgaris which I have done re-search on most people said to use this also we are seeing a professional doctor who said this will work
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Mushi_master
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(Original post by Anonymous)
he herbal medicine is called berberis vulgaris which I have done re-search on most people said to use this also we are seeing a professional doctor who said this will work
Is this professional a rheumatologist? I very much doubt it, and this kind of thing needs the input and management of an accredited, appropriately trained medical professional. Also, if a proper specialist did suggest this may help, I'll bet my bottom dollar that they did not advise to stop the proper medication. Why go against the opinion of years and years of thorough research to try something else that may not work, be anywhere near as effective or downright dangerous. Rheumatoid arthritis can lead to very unpleasant and disfiguring complications, which can be largely prevented with effective management. Current treatment has changed this disease dramatically, and to actually stop the medication is to risk this happening.

Of course, your sisters health is her perogative and her choice, but why risk it against the face of all evidence? If she's experiencing a relapse of symptoms then this is clearly not effective.

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hslt
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(Original post by Anonymous)
he herbal medicine is called berberis vulgaris which I have done re-search on most people said to use this also we are seeing a professional doctor who said this will work
Well, you're not seeing a rheumatologist I assume, or you misunderstood what they were saying, and I (HOPE) they meant you can continue using your prescribed medication WITH this herbal medicine.

Guidance and evidence is VERY clear that multiple drug therapy is the 100% best way to control rheumatoid arthritis - anything else is simply substandard care. And your sister should be aware that it is a progressive condition that, without good control will, well... progress.

There is no way that a competent Dr should be suggesting stopping your sister's other drugs in place of a non-evidenced based therapy, especially in someone whose joints have to last another 80 years.
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ambulatory123
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Herbal medicine is used by the pharmacy companies to make the drugs. Nowadays the herbal medicine is used for primary health care. There are many urgent care centers that provide the herbal medicine for treatment.
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hslt
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(Original post by ambulatory123)
Herbal medicine is used by the pharmacy companies to make the drugs. Nowadays the herbal medicine is used for primary health care. There are many urgent care centers that provide the herbal medicine for treatment.
It's true. I was in ent emergencies the other day, this woman came in unable to breath, we rubbed her down with some 'the herbal medicine' and also have her some the herbal medicine for her heart attack and pneumothorax - the herbal medicine is wonderful.


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Raiden10
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I happen to find herbal medicine fascinating. Homeopathy is NOT herbal medicine. Homeopathy is 200 years, old, herbal medicine is at least 4500 years old (in China and Japan), and probably older. In Oriental countries many of these are still used today. (Also, China and Japan have a lot less cancer, heart disease, and alzheimers disease than the UK and especially the US!)

There are various herbal medicines that work for many ailments. But go about it in a smart way.

Also, don't discontinue the pre-existing meds right away. That way you have no idea if the "new thing" does anything! Make changes one at a time!

Vitamins that are reputed to help with arthritic things:

- Vitamin D
- Vitamin K (you need vitamin K1 AND vitamin K2)

(Start right away)

Herbs for autoimmune diseases:
- Olive leaf
- Maidenhair leaf

(Ask your doctor before taking as some herbs can interact with some pharmaceuticals)

My understanding is that the most common anti-rheumatoid arthritis drugs are antifolates (i.e. anti cancer drugs). They are also abortion drugs (since they stop cells replicating).

It would surely not be ideal to be on such a drug your whole life. You would always be more sickly and have a worse immune system. You would never win wimbledon. Can't be great for having babies either.

The advantage of herbs, especially for a disease caused essentially by chronic inflammation, is that they have the potential (this is not a guarantee) to treat the disease at its root.

This is vs. synthetic drugs (e.g.aspirin, paracetemol), which have a tendency to treat symptoms and not the underlying cause. This is partly because they tend to be single isolated compounds that have a single chemical formula: e.g. C9H8O4 for Aspirin. Often they can do this very very potently. That's what's good about them.

On the other hand, herbs contain thousands of thousands of compounds (there is no chemical formula for Olive or Maidenhair), and the mechanism of action, while it can often be hard to decipher, can actually go deeper.

Herbs also have fewer side effects (most often none), wherease synthetic drugs *almost always* have side effects. Just look out for drug-herb interactions as these can be dangerous in some cases.

In diseases like cancer, the symptoms are more important than the cause, because the symptoms often include death. This is where synthetic drugs are good. Herbs would mainly be useful as a sidekick.

In disease where the symptoms are more chronic but less serious than death, herbs can come into their own. This includes things like vitiligo, hay fever, chronic fatigue syndrome, rheumatoid arthritis, etc.

I would say absolutely herbs are a good thing to look into for autoimmune disease. But the first thing would be to get a decent multivitamin (not centrum synthetic crap), vitamin D and K, and eat brightly coloured (especially red) vegetables/fruits. Then check with your doctor before eating herbals like I mentioned.

Edit: Actually "Eve" is a bit crap. Anyway. A good multivitamin. Maybe just vitabiotics ha.
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shiggydiggy
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(Original post by Raiden10)
In diseases like cancer, the symptoms are more important than the cause, because the symptoms often include death.
What the **** am I reading?
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Kutie Karen
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(Original post by Mushi_master)
Stopping your prescribed medicine to take unproven and potentially unsafe herbal products is a very unwise thing to do, the medication for rheumatoid arthritis is essential in preventing worsening of the condition and developing nasty complications. I highly recommend against this and that your sister goes to her GP asap.

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Absolutely, agree with this advice. Get some help now.
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Raiden10
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(Original post by shiggydiggy)
What the **** am I reading?
Well, a cold does not kill you. People are therefore interested in how to stop getting colds. But nobody says "oh, how do I stop getting cancer".

Cancer and colds are both signs of a weak immune system. They share that. The reason you get them is because your immune system is too weak to kill them. The difference between them is that one of the kills you, the other one doesn't.
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shiggydiggy
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(Original post by Raiden10)
But nobody says "oh, how do I stop getting cancer".
Usually one of the first questions, tbh.

(Original post by Raiden10)
Cancer and colds are both signs of a weak immune system.
How so, specifically?
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Raiden10
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(Original post by shiggydiggy)
Usually one of the first questions, tbh.



How so, specifically?
Specifically? It would be a long answer and it's not something I am an expert on. Much is still unknown!

I know that when cancers develop they often secrete immunosuppressant factors, making it difficult for the body's immune system to break down. Also, immunosuppressant disease like AIDS increase the risk of many kinds of cancer.

Oh and here's a good, well formulated multivitamin (good value, free of synthetic vitamins from coal tar as found in centrum): http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Suppleme...y-Tablets.html
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shiggydiggy
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(Original post by Raiden10)
it's not something I am an expert on.
This is the correct answer.

Yes, being immunocompromised places you at higher risk of certain malignancies. Yes, malignant cells avoid detection of the immune system.

Will (does) immunomodulation provide treatments for cancer? Yes, absolutely.

Will eating olive leaves be the answer? No.

Also, don't discontinue the pre-existing meds right away.

(Ask your doctor before taking as some herbs can interact with some pharmaceuticals)

Then check with your doctor before eating herbals like I mentioned.
But the above is appreciated. I'm glad that atleast you're not one of the herbal nutjobs who have some gripe against developed medicine.
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Raiden10
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(Original post by shiggydiggy)
This is the correct answer.

Yes, being immunocompromised places you at higher risk of certain malignancies. Yes, malignant cells avoid detection of the immune system.

Will (does) immunomodulation provide treatments for cancer? Yes, absolutely.

Will eating olive leaves be the answer? No.



But the above is appreciated. I'm glad that atleast you're not one of the herbal nutjobs who have some gripe against developed medicine.
There is no correct answer, you idiot. What kind of of world do you think we live in? A Textbook?

The consumption of olive leaves (extract, not leaf itself) is to enhance the immune system. Maybe you will still get cancer.

The truth is maybe you die of a horrible wailing cancer. But for general well being, I think herbs have a lot to offer.


Also, there are many pharmaceuticals that are basically a joke. The only reason they exist is to make money. E.g. there are a 1000 ways to replicate the effect of statins.


Also, you would think Japan, China would be so sick and diseased. They have an aging population right? Why do they get so little alzheimers and cancer compared to the US? Because the US pays attention to chinese medicine?
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Raiden10
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(Original post by shiggydiggy)
This is the correct answer.
And you are?

If you are, then you know a lot is UNKNOWN. And you know the immune system plays a very important part. An UNKNOWN part, probably.
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shiggydiggy
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(Original post by Raiden10)
There is no correct answer, you idiot. What kind of of world do you think we live in? A Textbook?

The consumption of olive leaves (extract, not leaf itself) is to enhance the immune system. Maybe you will still get cancer.

The truth is maybe you die of a horrible wailing cancer. But for general well being, I think herbs have a lot to offer.


Also, there are many pharmaceuticals that are basically a joke. The only reason they exist is to make money. E.g. there are a 1000 ways to replicate the effect of statins.


Also, you would think Japan, China would be so sick and diseased. They have an aging population right? Why do they get so little alzheimers and cancer compared to the US? Because the US pays attention to chinese medicine?
Calm down. Have a leaf.
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Anonymous #1
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checking out this thread after while...thanks for the reply's...my sis was back on her medications given by her GP from the hospital a while ago
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Raiden10)
There is no correct answer, you idiot. What kind of of world do you think we live in? A Textbook?

The consumption of olive leaves (extract, not leaf itself) is to enhance the immune system. Maybe you will still get cancer.

The truth is maybe you die of a horrible wailing cancer. But for general well being, I think herbs have a lot to offer.


Also, there are many pharmaceuticals that are basically a joke. The only reason they exist is to make money. E.g. there are a 1000 ways to replicate the effect of statins.


Also, you would think Japan, China would be so sick and diseased. They have an aging population right? Why do they get so little alzheimers and cancer compared to the US? Because the US pays attention to chinese medicine?
this thread wasn't created to see who wins with their research - I just wanted to clear my confusion... next time MIND UR LANGUAGE no need to call a member of staff an Idiot!
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