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has anyone else just seen that scientology advert on ITV? watch

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    i've read a little bit about scientology and have begun to fear the organisation quite a lot.
    it seems that, with the recent update to search engine legislation, this could be the start of a worldwide recruit?

    is the end upon us?
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    (Original post by dire wolf)
    i've read a little about scientology and have begun to fear the organisation quite a lot.
    it seems that, with the recent update to search engine legislation, this could be the start of a worldwide recruit?

    is the end upon us?
    well they are not recruiting bear™ to their nutcase organisation. no sirree bob.
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    If that's true, two things rather surprising here.
    One, that they're advertising in the UK. I haven't seen any of their advertisements here, and I thought that it was a matter that more people in the UK know about their business that in the USA, although that's just an assumption.
    And two, that they're still around to advertise. It's rather ridiculous it still exists.
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    I live near the UK home of Scientology, and they're alright, I mean I know the organisation does a few evil thing, but it's no worse than any other religions to me.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    I live near the UK home of Scientology, and they're alright, I mean I know the organisation does a few evil thing, but it's no worse than any other religions to me.
    It is worse in the respect that exists for corrupt purposes, rather than corruption being a potential side effect. The leaders of it have know what they're doing and have criminal intentions.
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    (Original post by UpstairsMuffin)
    It is worse in the respect that exists for corrupt purposes, rather than corruption being a potential side effect. The leaders of it have know what they're doing and have criminal intentions.
    Religious organisations have generally reflected man's desire for power and control, I don't see what evidence there is that Scientologists are any less sincere than the others.

    I feel like scientologists are an acceptable target to pick on.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    Religious organisations have generally reflected man's desire for power and control, I don't see what evidence there is that Scientologists are any less sincere than the others.

    I feel like scientologists are an acceptable target to pick on.
    People aren't arbitrarily "picking on" Scientology. Scientology has a horrendous history of crime and abuse.
    Most religions do reflect man's desire for power and control to some extent, as it is why religion exists. Christianity, for example, makes Christians feel more important. However, there is no harm in that. The radical fundamentalist Christians may cause harm, but they generally don't believe they're being malicious for the sake of it or for their own benefit. They are acting on their own beliefs.
    What Scientology does is it intentionally brainwashes people into following it so that they will give them money, and they abuse them so that they can repeat this act. That is what distinguishes it from religions.
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    No. Why don't you put a video in your post to help us get some perspective?
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    (Original post by UpstairsMuffin)
    People aren't arbitrarily "picking on" Scientology. Scientology has a horrendous history of crime and abuse.
    Most religions do reflect man's desire for power and control to some extent, as it is why religion exists. Christianity, for example, makes Christians feel more important. However, there is no harm in that. The radical fundamentalist Christians may cause harm, but they generally don't believe they're being malicious for the sake of it or for their own benefit. They are acting on their own beliefs.
    What Scientology does is it intentionally brainwashes people into following it so that they will give them money, and they abuse them so that they can repeat this act. That is what distinguishes it from religions.
    What I mean is, people will mock Scientologists and their beliefs in ways they wouldn't other religions. People will laugh at them for believing in aliens and stuff, in ways they wouldn't mock Christians and Muslims.

    The only difference I see is that you don't really get "casual" Scientologists in the way you get casual Christians who aren't really seriously into it, because if you aren't really into Scientology, you won't follow it or identify as one.

    I don't see how it "brainwashes" people than anyone else. In fact, they aren't very evangelical- I live a few miles from the HQ and they haven't ever been to my door. The main contact I had was where they put on a free gig at their castle (yes, castle), and they didn't mention religion, they just shared a bunch of bull**** bizarre anti-drugs propaganda. And they are the only religion to exploit people for money? The latest income I could find for the Catholic Church- 422 BILLION DOLLARS (http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/eco...y-see-for-2000).
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    What I mean is, people will mock Scientologists and their beliefs in ways they wouldn't other religions. People will laugh at them for believing in aliens and stuff, in ways they wouldn't mock Christians and Muslims.

    The only difference I see is that you don't really get "casual" Scientologists in the way you get casual Christians who aren't really seriously into it, because if you aren't really into Scientology, you won't follow it or identify as one.

    I don't see how it "brainwashes" people than anyone else. In fact, they aren't very evangelical- I live a few miles from the HQ and they haven't ever been to my door. The main contact I had was where they put on a free gig at their castle (yes, castle), and they didn't mention religion, they just shared a bunch of bull**** bizarre anti-drugs propaganda. And they are the only religion to exploit people for money? The latest income I could find for the Catholic Church- 422 BILLION DOLLARS (http://www.zenit.org/en/articles/eco...y-see-for-2000).
    The difference is Scientology only tells you about its core belief system once you have invested an enormous amount of money to the church and they effectively own you.
    The reason why you don't get "casual" Scientologists is because they're brainwashed into letting it become their life.
    Christianity is different, because as I said, Scientology is based on feeding off money from people and nothing else.
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    (Original post by UpstairsMuffin)
    The difference is Scientology only tells you about its core belief system once you have invested an enormous amount of money to the church and they effectively own you.
    The reason why you don't get "casual" Scientologists is because they're brainwashed into letting it become their life.
    Christianity is different, because as I said, Scientology is based on feeding off money from people and nothing else.
    Ok, if you're going to keep using that term, what are they doing that counts as "brainwashing" that other religions don't do? Like most people, I went to a school when I was four/five that told me everyday that Jesus was real, that heaven existed, that Christianity is true. Is that brainwashing?

    The definition of brainwashing often seems to be "being told things I don't believe in". No one has ever said anyone's been "brainwashed" into something they agree with.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    Ok, if you're going to keep using that term, what are they doing that counts as "brainwashing" that other religions don't do? Like most people, I went to a school when I was four/five that told me everyday that Jesus was real, that heaven existed, that Christianity is true. Is that brainwashing?

    The definition of brainwashing often seems to be "being told things I don't believe in". No one has ever said anyone's been "brainwashed" into something they agree with.
    Brainwashing is a technique that is carried out in a specific way and works upon special psychological manipulation tactics. The reason why Scientology is accused of brainwashing and not other religions (or at least not to the same extent), is because Scientology is obsessed with the mind and abusing the mind to get what they want. They use many psychological tactics to, not only get their subjects to stay in the church, but to attack critics of the church. There are many good examples of this, and I suggest you have a look at "Scientology and Me", a documentary in which Tommy Davis very evidently manipulates the reporter attempting to carry out the documentary.
    Brainwashing at its most basic level is being told something is true over and over again. Your proposition that Christianity is brainwashing would therefore be correct under the circumstances where the Christians impose their beliefs heavily and repeatedly onto children. However, Scientology uses brainwashing on a far larger extent. Ask a Scientologist what Scientology is about and they will not give you a clear answer. Instead they will tell you to "read the books", exactly what they were told.
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    Nutjobs of the highest order.

    Their founder is a proven liar and con artist really. I can't believe there's a few hundred thousand folks out there who believe in this *******s.
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    (Original post by UpstairsMuffin)
    Brainwashing is a technique that is carried out in a specific way and works upon special psychological manipulation tactics. The reason why Scientology is accused of brainwashing and not other religions (or at least not to the same extent), is because Scientology is obsessed with the mind and abusing the mind to get what they want. They use many psychological tactics to, not only get their subjects to stay in the church, but to attack critics of the church. There are many good examples of this, and I suggest you have a look at "Scientology and Me", a documentary in which Tommy Davis very evidently manipulates the reporter attempting to carry out the documentary.
    Brainwashing at its most basic level is being told something is true over and over again. Your proposition that Christianity is brainwashing would therefore be correct under the circumstances where the Christians impose their beliefs heavily and repeatedly onto children. However, Scientology uses brainwashing on a far larger extent. Ask a Scientologist what Scientology is about and they will not give you a clear answer. Instead they will tell you to "read the books", exactly what they were told.
    Honestly, I don't know where you heard that, but accusations of brainwashing take many different forms, it is certainly not carried out in a specific way.

    It's ironic you say that, because if you actually talk to scientologists, the thing they most go on about is "abuse of the mind"- any drugs which effect the brain. Like when you are given anti-depressents, or when kids are given ADHD medication, they see that as the most evil thing, often a grand conspiracy. I have no idea why, but it's worth bringing up because a lot of people don't know anything they actually say.

    Oh, I know all about their "defense tactics"- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Ga...Scientology%29 . However, despicable as it is, that isn't brainwashing.

    In that case, you could say we are brainwashed into believing in democracy, not to swear, not to attack each other, etc.

    Oh, it's dodgy as **** alright. However, they aren't the only religion pushing books on people.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    Honestly, I don't know where you heard that, but accusations of brainwashing take many different forms, it is certainly not carried out in a specific way.

    It's ironic you say that, because if you actually talk to scientologists, the thing they most go on about is "abuse of the mind"- any drugs which effect the brain. Like when you are given anti-depressents, or when kids are given ADHD medication, they see that as the most evil thing, often a grand conspiracy. I have no idea why, but it's worth bringing up because a lot of people don't know anything they actually say.

    Oh, I know all about their "defense tactics"- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Ga...Scientology%29 . However, despicable as it is, that isn't brainwashing.

    In that case, you could say we are brainwashed into believing in democracy, not to swear, not to attack each other, etc.

    Oh, it's dodgy as **** alright. However, they aren't the only religion pushing books on people.
    Was not talking about accusations of brainwashing, but brainwashing itself. A person who is trying to brainwash another person know exactly what they're doing, therefore it's a specific process, and many instances of brainwashing have consistencies.

    Yes, I'm aware of Scientology's stigmatising of psychiatry. They do not admit to their own abuse of the mind though. The officials of Scientology will not admit to their crimes, but they know exactly what they're doing.
    I believe they get their subjects to believe that psychiatry is evil because it counters Scientology beliefs and it's what can actually help them get out of their brainwashed state.

    I was using their defense tactics as an example of how Scientology focuses on the mind to abuse people, and use their knowledge of the mind to abuse people.
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    (Original post by UpstairsMuffin)
    Was not talking about accusations of brainwashing, but brainwashing itself. A person who is trying to brainwash another person know exactly what they're doing, therefore it's a specific process, and many instances of brainwashing have consistencies.

    Yes, I'm aware of Scientology's stigmatising of psychiatry. They do not admit to their own abuse of the mind though. The officials of Scientology will not admit to their crimes, but they know exactly what they're doing.

    I believe they get their subjects to believe that psychiatry is evil because it counters Scientology beliefs
    and it's what can actually help them get out of their brainwashed state.

    I was using their defense tactics as an example of how Scientology focuses on the mind to abuse people, and use their knowledge of the mind to abuse people.
    My point was, it's subjective. I can certainly see how you could accuse them of brainwashing, but you can't state it as fact, I'm assuming your lack of examples means you don't have any.

    Of course they won't. What religious leaders say "yeah, we're manipulating the poor and the desperate to get loads of money are power"?

    That's circular reasoning, you're saying they believe say is wrong because it counters their beliefs- which were created because...? What medication would take them out of their "brainwashed state"? They aren't walking around like zombies...

    Like I say, there's plenty wrong with the religion, it is exploitative, it is wrong, it just isn't exceptional, sadly.
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    (Original post by Mankytoes)
    My point was, it's subjective. I can certainly see how you could accuse them of brainwashing, but you can't state it as fact, I'm assuming your lack of examples means you don't have any.

    Of course they won't. What religious leaders say "yeah, we're manipulating the poor and the desperate to get loads of money are power"?

    That's circular reasoning, you're saying they believe say is wrong because it counters their beliefs- which were created because...? What medication would take them out of their "brainwashed state"? They aren't walking around like zombies...

    Like I say, there's plenty wrong with the religion, it is exploitative, it is wrong, it just isn't exceptional, sadly.
    I gave you examples. Examples of how they abuse the mind. And since they call themselves a "religion" and get followers to pay money to them, it's common sense that they brainwash people to belief the ideologies of the church, before you even look at the facts. These are beliefs which are only revealed after a certain amount of money is payed to the church, remember.

    I said they don't admit to their crimes because you were making some point about them being critical of psychiatry and tying that in with what I said about them abusing the mind.

    They're not walking around like zombies, no, but that's not to say they're not brainwashed. Scientology doesn't want their subjects to return to the real world.

    Their criticism of psychiatry is not circular logic at all. They're critical to psychiatry because they're told to be, and they're given fallacies. The leaders want them to be critical because counters the rest of the system. Have a look at how they're critical of psychiatry and you'll see it isn't false. They are critical, and it's exactly how I've described.

    I recommend looking more into it if you still describe it as a "religion". I recommend xenutv, xenu.net, and various interviews, documentaries and confrontations that are now available on YouTube. That is all.
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    (Original post by UpstairsMuffin)
    I gave you examples. Examples of how they abuse the mind. And since they call themselves a "religion" and get followers to pay money to them, it's common sense that they brainwash people to belief the ideologies of the church, before you even look at the facts. These are beliefs which are only revealed after a certain amount of money is payed to the church, remember.

    They're not walking around like zombies, no, but that's not to say they're not brainwashed. Scientology doesn't want their subjects to return to the real world.

    Their criticism of psychiatry is not circular logic at all. They're critical to psychiatry because they're told to be, and they're given fallacies. The leaders want them to be critical because counters the rest of the system. Have a look at how they're critical of psychiatry and you'll see it isn't false. They are critical, and it's exactly how I've described.

    I recommend looking more into it if you still describe it as a "religion". I recommend xenutv, xenu.net, and various interviews, documentaries and confrontations that are now available on YouTube. That is all.
    What examples? You mentioned a documentary which wasn't about brainwashing, I'm the only person who has actually posted links.

    That's my point, they're just like other religions. That isn't a compliment.

    You know they don't live on compounds and stuff? They live in the "real world". How do their punishments for apostasy compare to Islam's?

    Some of it is exaggerated and misleading, some points are reasonable, they talk about children being over medicated a lot, especially in America, I think that's a good point, they are too quick to diagnose disorders like ADHD, or at least too quick to prescribe strong mental drugs for them.

    They promote a load of *******s to vulnerable people for power and profit. That's exactly what religion is to me. What, and try not to be vague, makes them not a religion, when the other ones are? The main difference between religion and cult seems to be size.
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    Hehe- http://www.scientology.org/what-is-scientology.html


    I've never seen so many words that actually manage to say absolutely nothing. What is the basic premise of Scientology? There doesn't seem to be a simple answer.


    My knowledge of Scientology is limited to Tom Cruise.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    No. Why don't you put a video in your post to help us get some perspective?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYwG21ECtdU
 
 
 
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