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UKIP MEP's home is attacked

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Original post by MASTER265
New evidence published on the guardian, BBC and dailymail shows they are supporters of the Labour Party who disagree with UKIPs policies.

The fact is they are liberal fascists who will attack anyone who is against their ideology. Seriously labour know nothing of democracy. They won't publicly debate UKIP, will not support a referendum, repeatedly attack members of other parties, start discriminative campaigns on people by promoting violence and attacks.


How can this one person reflect the views/opinions/attitudes of an entire political wing?

May you provide me with this new evidence?
Original post by MASTER265
Tie in the expenses scandal, the racist attacks, the sex abuse crimes, the violent attacks and the many illegal fraud activities, most sources estimate 1.3% of labour so do your research you far left loon. You seem to have the IQ range of a crumpet and the Charisma of a rock


'Most sources' :lol:

Have you ever heard that quote that the intelligent are full of doubt while the stupid are cocksure? You definitely fall into the latter category.
Reply 82
Original post by MASTER265
These left loons are the most violent of them all. They do not support democracy and believe that only their ideology is right. Seriously how anyone can support liberal facists like labour I do not know


Quick somebody call the police he called something fascist.
Original post by SHallowvale
How can this one person reflect the views/opinions/attitudes of an entire political wing?

May you provide me with this new evidence?


I will happily provide the evidence
Original post by DaveSmith99
'Most sources' :lol:

Have you ever heard that quote that the intelligent are full of doubt while the stupid are cocksure? You definitely fall into the latter category.


I have heard that quote and recently modern philosophers have disregarded it's relevance and logic. So I'm not too bothered about it or how it applies to me.
Original post by MASTER265
I have heard that quote and recently modern philosophers have disregarded it's relevance and logic. So I'm not too bothered about it or how it applies to me.


Of course you're not bothered.
Original post by DaveSmith99
Of course you're not bothered.


Ill be honest I am bothered
Original post by MASTER265
Ill be honest I am bothered


I know, that's why the quote is so apt.
Original post by DaveSmith99
I know, that's why the quote is so apt.


I will remember that quote, it is a good one
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
No it wasn't.


Yes it certainly was.

Do your history homework and hand it in to me monday morning.

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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
Yes it certainly was.

Do your history homework and hand it in to me monday morning.

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left wing and right wing nationalism are completely different
Original post by Ben Manklin
left wing and right wing nationalism are completely different


Indeed you are correct (sort of), carry on..

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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
Yes it certainly was.

Do your history homework and hand it in to me monday morning.

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Both the left and right have nationalist strands. To not acknowledge that is competently ignorant.
Original post by Martyn*
Rubbish. You cannot tar the whole by the actions of a few.


Yet it's perfectly fine for UKIP opposer's to call all of UKIP racists, bigots, fascists, etc.

You lot make me laugh. It's only fine when you say so.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Both the left and right have nationalist strands. To not acknowledge that is competently ignorant.


Yes i agree! Whoever thinks otherwise should be ashamed, because that was not what I was arguing.

Read carefully: Modern day "right wing" nationalism has roots in traditional left wing ideaological nationalism. Nationalism came after people started to question their monarchies, and states/ nations began to form. What is so factually incorrect here?
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(edited 9 years ago)
Original post by the mezzil
Yes i agree! Whoever thinks otherwise should be ashamed, because that was not what I was arguing.

Read carefully: Modern day "right wing" nationalism has roots in traditional left wing ideaological nationalism.
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Making the whole left vs right paradigm moronic in this instance.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
Making the whole left vs right paradigm moronic in this instance.


Nope. Read my edit.

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Original post by the mezzil

Read carefully: Modern day "right wing" nationalism has roots in traditional left wing ideaological nationalism. Nationalism came after people started to question their monarchies, and states/ nations began to form. What is so factually incorrect here?
Posted from TSR Mobile


So nationalism never existed in Britain as it retained a monarchy?

I woudn't say there is anything wrong with what you said. But those nationalistic tendencies existed along side with capitalism as well as fascism. It also depends on someone's definition of left wing. When I think of left wing I tend to think of the libertarian and anarchist part of the 2-D spectrum. These groups couldn't get any further away from nationalism. Then you have Trotskyism which is totalitarian and internationalist.

The likes of Lenin, Trotsky and Hitler road the waves of popular revolt to reign in power for themselves or the state they would introduce. They are counter revolutionary in my view. Lenin was right wing in some respects but wasn't nationalistic in his supposed goals. Hitler was for obvious master race reasons etc.

It's all to complicated to just say "the left/right invented nationalism"

The identity of a country and its state whether republican or a monarchy was vital in the running of colonial empires which are definitely not left wing.

America was/is full of nationalism and has been and is on the whole right wing.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
So nationalism never existed in Britain as it retained a monarchy?

I woudn't say there is anything wrong with what you said. But those nationalistic tendencies existed along side with capitalism as well as fascism. It also depends on someone's definition of left wing. When I think of left wing I tend to think of the libertarian and anarchist part of the 2-D spectrum. These groups couldn't get any further away from nationalism. Then you have Trotskyism which is totalitarian and internationalist.

The likes of Lenin, Trotsky and Hitler road the waves of popular revolt to reign in power for themselves or the state they would introduce. They are counter revolutionary in my view. Lenin was right wing in some respects but wasn't nationalistic in his supposed goals. Hitler was for obvious master race reasons etc.

It's all to complicated to just say "the left/right invented nationalism"

The identity of a country and its state whether republican or a monarchy was vital in the running of colonial empires which are definitely not left wing.

America was/is full of nationalism and has been and is on the whole right wing.


Marxism itself is build on the fundamental concept of internationalism and rejecting nationalism as well. The idea of worldwide revolution and the establishment of stateless society. One of the main reasons behind the original split between Stalin and Trotsky was the abandonment of internationalism.
Original post by ChaoticButterfly
So nationalism never existed in Britain as it retained a monarchy?

I woudn't say there is anything wrong with what you said. But those nationalistic tendencies existed along side with capitalism as well as fascism. It also depends on someone's definition of left wing. When I think of left wing I tend to think of the libertarian and anarchist part of the 2-D spectrum. These groups couldn't get any further away from nationalism. Then you have Trotskyism which is totalitarian and internationalist.

The likes of Lenin, Trotsky and Hitler road the waves of popular revolt to reign in power for themselves or the state they would introduce. They are counter revolutionary in my view. Lenin was right wing in some respects but wasn't nationalistic in his supposed goals. Hitler was for obvious master race reasons etc.

It's all to complicated to just say "the left/right invented nationalism"

The identity of a country and its state whether republican or a monarchy was vital in the running of colonial empires which are definitely not left wing.

America was/is full of nationalism and has been and is on the whole right wing.


If you asked a peasant in the 12th century what he identified as, he would identify himself with a specific village, with a specific lord/ noble and then a specific king to whom he was subject too. He would never say "I'm English". So nationalism in that sense did not exist. So no, there was no nationalism when under feudalism.

When I think of left wing i think economically. So state controlled industry is left, whereas right is freedom of the markets. You dont know what left/ right actually means do you? Like most of the public.

If you are to use your definition, I would be left wing and the green/ labour party more right wing than me.


When the early modern revolutions occured in the 19/18th century (not the counter revolution in the late 19th century) the revolutionaries were the working class. Aka the left, since they wanted stronger democratically elected government control over them and their work (economy) instead of the monarchy. They overthrew feudalism and put in a left wing version of nationalism (civic nationalism it is properly called). People identified with their nations, rather than their rulers. The working class became proud of their nation, and the people they identified with.

It is not a difficult concept to understand. If you still dont get that nationalism was developed as a left wing idea, you really do need to go back to your history classes. Wiki might help.




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(edited 9 years ago)

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