Men supporting rape on TSR should be banned

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Fullofsurprises
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#1
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#1
I've seen a number of cases over the last few weeks where male users made remarks that either claimed they had carried out rapes, or else provocatively and bluntly supported the concept of rape.

I complained to Mods about the ones I saw and the Mods did take action, removing the posts. Obviously because the card system is private, I don't know what else was done. What did disturb me was that in every case, there was no ban given.

This is really bad. Rape is a vile crime. I don't know why men can get away with advocating or praising it (even if they are just trolling or fantasising) and yet continue to be allowed to post as if nothing bad has really happened. It makes the forum feel incredibly unsafe for women.

I would like to hear from Mods as to why these users should not receive some sort of immediate short ban for this.
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Idle
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#2
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#2
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I've seen a number of cases over the last few weeks where male users made remarks that either claimed they had carried out rapes, or else provocatively and bluntly supported the concept of rape.

I complained to Mods about the ones I saw and the Mods did take action, removing the posts. Obviously because the card system is private, I don't know what else was done. What did disturb me was that in every case, there was no ban given.

This is really bad. Rape is a vile crime. I don't know why men can get away with advocating or praising it (even if they are just trolling or fantasising) and yet continue to be allowed to post as if nothing bad has really happened. It makes the forum feel incredibly unsafe for women.

I would like to hear from Mods as to why these users should not receive some sort of immediate short ban for this.
I don't think I have dealt with any of the examples you have reported so I can't comment on them specifically but this is something we take seriously. It can be extremely hard to determine where to draw the line on issues like this because we tend to get criticised if we come down hard on people or if we don't. Generally it does take something extreme to earn a straight ban (adult content, encouraging suicide and extreme offensiveness are ones that come to mind) but depending on the severity of what has been said there isn't a reason why it can't be applied to these sorts of issues although it is preferable generally to led someone know first that we don't accept this through the card system.
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username1331498
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#3
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#3
"I've seen a number of cases over the last few weeks where male users made remarks that either claimed they had carried out rapes, or else provocatively and bluntly supported the concept of rape."

You have?!

"It makes the forum feel incredibly unsafe for women."

And for men..... Men can also be raped.
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Fullofsurprises
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#4
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#4
I would be grateful if Mods would prevent people from turning this into a controversy thread about the politics of gender. I was raising a request for input about how rape allegations are treated on the forum, not asking men to join the thread to debate if sexism is a reality.
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EierVonSatan
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#5
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#5
The severity of the offence is not always scaled proportionately with the infraction, we have an incremental system here for the vast majority of offences (including 'encouraging illegal activity' for which this would fall under). This is not society at large, it is a forum after all - pornographic images are legal, but not allowed here as one example where the two are treated quite differently. If we start picking out things to treat differently we end up with a pretty inconsistent system with lots of exceptions, making it more and more difficult to moderate and the users to understand. As an example you could take a view that abortion is murder (not my personal view) and thus ban every person that supports abortion.

Not instantly banning an individual for their vile opinions is not equal to saying that the site thinks that rape is a light-hearted matter

As for not wanting to start a debate on sexism, you haven't helped yourself by singling out one gender. Posts that support rape should be removed, whoever makes them.
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Fullofsurprises
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#6
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#6
(Original post by EierVonSatan)

As for not wanting to start a debate on sexism, you haven't helped yourself by singling out one gender. Posts that support rape should be removed, whoever makes them.
That isn't correct. I was referencing cases I had seen and complained to the Mods about. In all of those cases, the user was, or was purporting to be, male. Of course we don't always know what the real gender of users is, but pretty typically people pick the one that matches their actual gender!

I am against all rape but in this case it was men.
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Fullofsurprises
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Idle)
I don't think I have dealt with any of the examples you have reported so I can't comment on them specifically but this is something we take seriously. It can be extremely hard to determine where to draw the line on issues like this because we tend to get criticised if we come down hard on people or if we don't. Generally it does take something extreme to earn a straight ban (adult content, encouraging suicide and extreme offensiveness are ones that come to mind) but depending on the severity of what has been said there isn't a reason why it can't be applied to these sorts of issues although it is preferable generally to led someone know first that we don't accept this through the card system.
Forgive my persistence, but I find it pretty hard to see how claiming you've raped somebody, or calling on people to congratulate them for rape or advocating it, is not as bad as posting adult content. I think lots of other users will feel the same way.
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Idle
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#8
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#8
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Forgive my persistence, but I find it pretty hard to see how claiming you've raped somebody, or calling on people to congratulate them for rape or advocating it, is not as bad as posting adult content. I think lots of other users will feel the same way.
I haven't seen the examples in question but I wasn't referring to people claiming they had raped someone. For people congratulating, it's a pretty disgusting thing to do but the issue lies in to how far you can go, if we start giving straight bans to people who have such opinions then really it leads down the road of banning people who don't believe in the Holocaust or think 9/11 was justified just because they have a rather disturbed opinion which could offend people. A lot of the time the community does a great job in making these arguments look silly, that being said we are aware of the rise in rape posts and threads on the topic, unfortunately there isn't a quick fix but it is something we are discussing.
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2ndClass
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#9
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#9
lighten up FOS, they're not being serious :rolleyes:
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Clip
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#10
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#10
I don't necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but I think the action proposed might just cause an impossible situation on a forum that already has enough issues with the internal logic of its disciplinary system.

If you start handing out straight bans for "supporting" rape, the problem as I see it is that there is no excuse for not doing the same for any other serious crime. Now, if anyone used TSR to discuss a serious assault or plan a bank robbery, I have no doubt they would be given the ban. However, with the rape issue, there are unfortunately people who take it kind of lightly. Now equally, there will always be people who discuss such things as murder in a light-hearted manner and I think it's easy to identify which discussions are meant to be so (although I accept there is no such thing as a light-hearted rape thread).

So if any support of rape gives you the ban - no matter how light-hearted, then there would be no logical reason why any light-hearted discussion of any serious crime wouldn't result in the same. And we're not talking about warnings (reminders) but instaban.

Consider the following hypothetical posts:

1. "I feel like killing my teacher"
2. "I feel like raping my teacher"

Clearly #2 is an outrageous statement, and in isolation I would say why not instaban them? But why single out sexual violence? Murder is just about as serious as it can be, and it's just as likely that both were said in "jest".

And what of "serious" posters? There are a few nuts on TSR that support mass violence in furtherance of whatever ideology they fancy - why would these people not be instabanned?

But I have to agree, that it seems very very odd that warnings seem to dished out with gay abandon for extremely trivial posts, but do not scale upward for genuinely distasteful content.
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little_wizard123
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#11
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#11
1) I agree with Clip - for example, you get those threads where a teenager assaults an old man. Then you get a load of comments saying 'just kill the teenager' or 'bring back capital punishment'. By your logic, they should be banned too.

2) You're incredibly annoying. Bloody 'men' :rolleyes:
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bjamin
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#12
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#12
should women all rape be?
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WGR
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#13
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#13
People who complain about rape jokes annoy me. Assault jokes? Perfectly ok. Robbery jokes? Perfectly ok. Murder jokes? Perfectly ok, yet people seem to get their knickers in a twist at only rape jokes, and only female rape jokes at that.

I could joke that if you went to a dodgy area you might get shot but if I joke that if you went to a dodgy area you might get raped suddenly I'm a monster?
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CryptoidAlien
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#14
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#14
I agree. Some men on here have sickening views toward women and their value to humanity. If a girl gets raped 'oh, she may have been wearing a skirt' 'oh, she was drunk and asking for it'. basically, lets create scenario's to justify it, even though you wern't there when it happened. And since when did Alcohol and Skirts from H & M create a rape epidemic. Rape has been occuring for centuries. Even the Bible/Qu'ran speaks about rape occuring in those days... Rapists are always going to exist whatever women wear, there is no repellent to sick people in society. These men are still not going to be able to control these dangerous urges.

Some of us just have this mentality like women deserve everything they get. Back in the days, men used to respect girls but now they love shaming and degrading them. It's quite sad actually because I think women are quite vulnerable and naive at times so why would somebody want to take advantage of that? that may be there daughter someday, and may be there sister or niece tomorrow.
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CryptoidAlien
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#15
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#15
(Original post by little_wizard123)
1) I agree with Clip - for example, you get those threads where a teenager assaults an old man. Then you get a load of comments saying 'just kill the teenager' or 'bring back capital punishment'. By your logic, they should be banned too.

2) You're incredibly annoying. Bloody 'men' :rolleyes:
That's because Rape is one of the most disturbing crimes around. It;s an ordeal, it's not like shooting somebody then running way. Rape can last for a very, very long time. It's one of the most traumatizing crimes to commit on somebody. What would traumatize you more? being shot or being raped? you'd most likely choose the latter.
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little_wizard123
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#16
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#16
(Original post by CryptoidAlien)
That's because Rape is one of the most disturbing crimes around. It;s an ordeal, it's not like shooting somebody then running way. Rape can last for a very, very long time. It's one of the most traumatizing crimes to commit on somebody. What would traumatize you more? being shot or being raped? you'd most likely choose the latter.
I understand what rape is, thanks. Surprisingly I wouldn't be traumatised if I were dead, so you're right there.

Do you genuinely believe rape is worse than murder? Gtfo.
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CryptoidAlien
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#17
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#17
(Original post by little_wizard123)
I understand what rape is, thanks. Surprisingly I wouldn't be traumatised if I were dead, so you're right there.

Do you genuinely believe rape is worse than murder? Gtfo.
I can see what you mean. But, what would you rather be known as: A rapist or a murderer? case closed.
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little_wizard123
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#18
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#18
(Original post by CryptoidAlien)
I can see what you mean. But, what would you rather be known as: A rapist or a murderer? case closed.
Yeah you're right, you win.

...
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UniMastermindBOSS
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#19
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#19
And to think there was another thread recently saying TSR should be unmoderated :rolleyes:
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Munchthebunch
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#20
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#20
Why would you WANT RAPISTS on YOUR forum? Any big crime like this should equate to an instant perm ban. Well of course people make mistakes but they appeal.

I have seen many, many forums (neopets cheating forums mainly) who have banned sexually abusers in the past, but this is actually cos these people met up with other members of that forum and sexually abused them... I suppose that's slightly different if a member complains they've been sexually harassed.

Although to be honest, as a forgiving person, if proof the person has genuinely changed, they MAY have a second chance. But there should be perm bans cos that's the only way these people will learn that those who harass people aren't welcome here... And these perm bans should last at last for 5 years, after which an appeal may be considered.

Sorry for the waffle, not very good am I at expressing my POV?
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