Privatise child protection services?!! Are the government insane?!

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datpiff
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http://www.theguardian.com/society/2...ation-proposes


hmmmm... what could possibly go wrong?



"It's a shame Jimmy Savile isn't still with us - this is just made for him...
Celebrity, links with other children's services, friends in the Tory party - he'd have taken over Yorkshire Children's Services at the drop of a hat....
....or his jogging bottoms...."




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Green Marble
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Hopefully they will do a better job than the child services are doing now
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MindTheGaps
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Maybe they've realised that the private sector is usually (always) more efficient than the public sector.

The only reasons you think they would necessarily do a worse job are emotional. Yes they care about profit, but the best way for them to achieve that is by doing a good job, which the client (in this case the government and the rest of us) is happy with. Cutting corners at the expense of customer satisfaction is a quick way to lose business to someone better. Conversely, the public sector has no such motivation, and it shows.
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datpiff
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(Original post by Green Marble)
Hopefully they will do a better job than the child services are doing now
You really think you hear about all of the work that Childrens Services do? I work closely with Social Workers and have done so for over 6 years. The majority of them do an incredible job. Yeah I criticise them when they deserve it, but saying all Social Workers do **** jobs is like saying all cops are evil.

What is your knowledge of how Child Services work? Is your knowledge only through the high profile cases? The newspaper headlines? Imo Children's Services get too much flack at times.

Most people don't even know what social workers do. They get all their info from the media.

You really think the private sector will do a better job at protecting children? Hahahaha...

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datpiff
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(Original post by Rinsed)
Maybe they've realised that the private sector is usually (always) more efficient than the public sector.
Yeah...

G4S and Serco will do a perfect job at protecting children lol.

Child welfare is something that should STAY in the public sector.

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datpiff
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(Original post by EllieLangdon)

Maybe making it into a business might up standards and bring in much needed staff. We can but hope!
That's probably what they said about the trains and look at them now. Rail privatisation has failed. Face it there are just some services that weren't meant to be ran for profit.

I am sorry to hear about your abuse, but I stand by what I said.
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datpiff
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(Original post by EllieLangdon)
What would you do to overhaul CPS? Just curious?
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/j...pidemic-feared

Two problems are the targets and the amount of caseloads that social workers get. It is insane. Often enough workers are working an insane amount of hours that are unpaid just to get through caseloads. There is a deep problem with the work culture in the Social Work profession. Burnout is all too common.

"I'd been there for 12 years and loved the job. But they just kept piling on the work. It was a real top-down management climate. I couldn't do my job properly because they overloaded me so much. It didn't matter what I said to them, they just didn't listen.
"It was so stressful. I ended up having these dreadful stomach problems. I had to go to the doctor and get medication because I was so ill. I also went to see a heart specialist because I was having palpitations, as well as sleepless nights.
"I was off for six months and then the council took disciplinary action against me. I took legal action with the help of the union and got an out-of-court settlement. I've become an independent social worker now and it's absolutely fine. My track record is excellent. I love the job and I do it very well."

.

In my opinion Social Work at the moment is the most stressful profession you can EVER go into. There's a reason why people are frightened off going into the profession.

Privatising the sector won't solve anything.
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MindTheGaps
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(Original post by datpiff)
Yeah...

G4S and Serco will do a perfect job at protecting children lol.

Child welfare is something that should STAY in the public sector.

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Yea and yet you're yet to give any justification for that claim.
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datpiff
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(Original post by Rinsed)
Yea and yet you're yet to give any justification for that claim.
ok then... how would you run a child protection service? What is your knowledge of safeguarding?

Why should I agree with you and not with a group of academics who have been studying child protection for years and have serious concerns? What are your credentials?


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datpiff
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All I need to say about G4S is: remember the Olympics?


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nulli tertius
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(Original post by datpiff)
That's probably what they said about the trains and look at them now. Rail privatisation has failed. Face it there are just some services that weren't meant to be ran for profit.
Rail privatisation has massively succeeded. Look at Chart 1 on this sheet. Rail passenger usage has doubled since privatisation.

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...et-2012-13.pdf

In many ways, and despite Byers' deliberate expropriation of Railtrack, the railways are the classic demonstration of the original justification of privatisation, which was that it was political interference that impeded the operations of state owned industries.

Levels of subsidy have massively increased and one can see that as a bad thing but equally one could said that the private sector has been significantly more successful than previous generations of Whitehall warriors in opening the government's purse strings.

The state-owned East Coast line has been very successful because it has been allowed to operate in a private sector environment yet with no obligation either to invest for the future or deliver a return to investors. It has had the best of both worlds. That would not have happened if the whole network was in public hands. So long as the majority is private East Coast Trains gets to work under the same regime. If the whole lot was publicly owned, it would be dancing to political expediency.

Look at Hansard and look at how many "free market" Conservatives ask questions designed to micro-manage state owned services. Before BT, MPs used to pressure where telephone exchanges were upgraded or closed and now they are quite willing to fight to keep ticket offices and buffets open. Of course every other stripe of politician is also doing it, but I use the example of the more free market end of the Tory Party, to show that the problem is endemic to politicians generally.

The reality is they can't help themselves. Give a politician any power over a business at all and they will try and exercise that power to curry political favour somewhere.
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MindTheGaps
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(Original post by datpiff)
ok then... how would you run a child protection service? What is your knowledge of safeguarding?

Why should I agree with you and not with a group of academics who have been studying child protection for years and have serious concerns? What are your credentials?


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I have claimed no expertise on the specific issue, but I took against the idea that the private sector is necessarily bad, which I think is a claim which needs justification. I do not think one needs expertise to raise such a question. It's a bit bizarre for you to start a thread and then violently refuse to justify your position, tbh. What did you want, a group of people to nod and say 'gosh, you're so right'?

If you agree with concerned academics, perhaps you could explain why they are concerned and why you agree with them? Your reluctance to do so makes it appear your argument is probably sketchy.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by datpiff)
Why should I agree with you and not with a group of academics who have been studying child protection for years and have serious concerns? What are your credentials?


]
That is merely credentialism. What are their arguments:-

It's the state's responsibility to protect people from maltreatment. It should not be delegated to a profit-making organisation.
That is a statement of dogma, not a reason. You could equally say that it is the state's responsibility to protect people from starvation. The growing of food and its sale should not be delegated to profit making organisations. Welcome to collective farms and state-owned shops.

The next argument is that state contractors have fiddled the books on other contracts. That is an issue of financial probity and not child protection. Public sector providers (some NHS organisations and the Police to name two) have been caught cooking the books on service level statistics which is much more serious.

Finally it was said that:
England has one of the most successful child protection systems in the world.
there were already many examples of local authority services delivering innovative improvements to services
Haringey?

Doncaster?
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by datpiff)
All I need to say about G4S is: remember the Olympics?


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And the connection is?

G4S were found to be incapable of creating an organisation needing enormous numbers of people to do a low skill task for low wages for a short period.

What is the systemic link between the Olympic failure and managing a child protection service?
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SocialistIC
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(Original post by datpiff)
All I need to say about G4S is: remember the Olympics?


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Don't forget Jimmy Mubenga.
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username402722
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I don't agree with the idea. Though I can see why given the failings in Haringey, Rochdale and some other places why it has creedance.
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physicso
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(Original post by datpiff)
You really think you hear about all of the work that Childrens Services do? I work closely with Social Workers and have done so for over 6 years. The majority of them do an incredible job. Yeah I criticise them when they deserve it, but saying all Social Workers do **** jobs is like saying all cops are evil.

What is your knowledge of how Child Services work? Is your knowledge only through the high profile cases? The newspaper headlines? Imo Children's Services get too much flack at times.

Most people don't even know what social workers do. They get all their info from the media.

You really think the private sector will do a better job at protecting children? Hahahaha...

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Totally agreed. My sister works in child protective services and she's so devoted to her job it's unreal, it really annoys me when bandwagoners all jump on the same daily mail headline to upset a large group of people. pathetic.
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by physicso)
Totally agreed. My sister works in child protective services and she's so devoted to her job it's unreal, it really annoys me when bandwagoners all jump on the same daily mail headline to upset a large group of people. pathetic.
Does she regard the service as well managed with appropriate staffing levels for the level of work?
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physicso
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(Original post by nulli tertius)
Does she regard the service as well managed with appropriate staffing levels for the level of work?

What? i don't know haha
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nulli tertius
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(Original post by physicso)
What? i don't know haha
Most of the problems with child protection are not with individual social workers but with dysfunctional social work departments.

If a social work department was a parent, it would be prosecuted for neglect.
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