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Why does everyone hate the middle classes so much??
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Fordyville
Yes, but surely that's just a case of a government not using it's money wisely more than anything.
You can't have a go at middle class people because the system is flawed. That's where voting plays it's part.
You can't have a go at middle class people because the system is flawed. That's where voting plays it's part.
no but it's perfectly reasonable to point out to an idiot toff that spending per pupil in public schools in not "the same or less" than in private schools. Ridiculous assertion.
flic_pearson
do u realise that the meaning of current can be the same as the meaning of contemporary
in that they track each other equally.
in that they track each other equally.
ARGH!
mustn't.....call.....you.....idiot....
flic_pearson
everyone starts out the same way. every child in this country has access to education in some form. what they take from it varies. the circumstances vary aswell. people may drop out for different reasons and they mite continue their education for different reasons but everyone is given the oppurtunity to learn and to progress right through the system to being a graduate with a first class honours degree. but they have to earn it, by learning the same curriculum which can be taught just as well or as poorly by any state or private sector teacher.
Except its more than likely going to be taught better by the private school teacher. That's why most private schools hold summer camps for other pupils to benefit from their teaching - because its PROVEN to be better. Of course you can be successful in state school, but you need to be lucky to go to a school that has good enough teachers. At private school you have pretty much sealed your fate to having top quality teachers teaching you the material.
Like I have said throughout this thread I have nothing against people going to private school and it is a great idea if you can afford to go - but I am sick and tired of people claiming that you don't get a better education.. sure you might get a duff teacher for a year but at a private school i bet they don't last long before they are moved on. Private schools pride themselves in having top quality teachers in their area - some of them even boast about it outright. It's about time people started facing the facts and know that you will more than likely get a better education if you go to private school because i agree with you, you will have a better environment, but you are also going to get better teachers who know their subject completely and will teach it in an effective way.
Reply 62
Fordyville
Yes, but surely that's just a case of a government not using it's money wisely more than anything.
You can't have a go at middle class people because the system is flawed. That's where voting plays it's part.
You can't have a go at middle class people because the system is flawed. That's where voting plays it's part.
it honestly doesnt though. i have been to both, and it really does just depend on the luck of the draw with what teachers you get. the only thing that private schools give their pupils that state schools generally dont is a self-confidence, which admittedly a few do turn into snobbishness and arrogance, but which for the most part is nothing more than the ability to walk into a new situation and feel confident enough to be outgoing.
at uni interviews it was most noticeable. private schools pupils seemed to make up the vast proportion of those who were moving around the waiting area and introducing themselves.
Reply 63
flic_pearson
everyone starts out the same way. every child in this country has access to education in some form. what they take from it varies. the circumstances vary aswell. people may drop out for different reasons and they mite continue their education for different reasons but everyone is given the oppurtunity to learn and to progress right through the system to being a graduate with a first class honours degree. but they have to earn it, by learning the same curriculum which can be taught just as well or as poorly by any state or private sector teacher.
although i agree to a point, I do think trying to deny Private School gives people a better chance is a flawed argument, but that isn't the fault of those at the schools. Most people would take the oppurtunity if offered, i know i certainly would have done.
'chance' being the operative word. Not everyone at state schools will fail, not everyone at private school will succeed, but they do have a slightly better chance.
danglenister
Except its more than likely going to be taught better by the private school teacher. That's why most private schools hold summer camps for other pupils to benefit from their teaching - because its PROVEN to be better. Of course you can be successful in state school, but you need to be lucky to go to a school that has good enough teachers. At private school you have pretty much sealed your fate to having top quality teachers teaching you the material.
Like I have said throughout this thread I have nothing against people going to private school and it is a great idea if you can afford to go - but I am sick and tired of people claiming that you don't get a better education.. sure you might get a duff teacher for a year but at a private school i bet they don't last long before they are moved on. Private schools pride themselves in having top quality teachers in their area - some of them even boast about it outright. It's about time people started facing the facts and know that you will more than likely get a better education if you go to private school because i agree with you, you will have a better environment, but you are also going to get better teachers who know their subject completely and will teach it in an effective way.
Like I have said throughout this thread I have nothing against people going to private school and it is a great idea if you can afford to go - but I am sick and tired of people claiming that you don't get a better education.. sure you might get a duff teacher for a year but at a private school i bet they don't last long before they are moved on. Private schools pride themselves in having top quality teachers in their area - some of them even boast about it outright. It's about time people started facing the facts and know that you will more than likely get a better education if you go to private school because i agree with you, you will have a better environment, but you are also going to get better teachers who know their subject completely and will teach it in an effective way.
absolutely.
It tends to make me want to throw a very heavy rock at their head.
If it's no better why spend thousands of pounds for it? ffs.
Reply 65
danglenister
Except its more than likely going to be taught better by the private school teacher. That's why most private schools hold summer camps for other pupils to benefit from their teaching - because its PROVEN to be better. Of course you can be successful in state school, but you need to be lucky to go to a school that has good enough teachers. At private school you have pretty much sealed your fate to having top quality teachers teaching you the material.
Like I have said throughout this thread I have nothing against people going to private school and it is a great idea if you can afford to go - but I am sick and tired of people claiming that you don't get a better education.. sure you might get a duff teacher for a year but at a private school i bet they don't last long before they are moved on. Private schools pride themselves in having top quality teachers in their area - some of them even boast about it outright. It's about time people started facing the facts and know that you will more than likely get a better education if you go to private school because i agree with you, you will have a better environment, but you are also going to get better teachers who know their subject completely and will teach it in an effective way.
Like I have said throughout this thread I have nothing against people going to private school and it is a great idea if you can afford to go - but I am sick and tired of people claiming that you don't get a better education.. sure you might get a duff teacher for a year but at a private school i bet they don't last long before they are moved on. Private schools pride themselves in having top quality teachers in their area - some of them even boast about it outright. It's about time people started facing the facts and know that you will more than likely get a better education if you go to private school because i agree with you, you will have a better environment, but you are also going to get better teachers who know their subject completely and will teach it in an effective way.
that just isnt true. i have had teachers consistently throughout the private systems who have failed to teach their subjects adequately. they last for a very long time, simply because of the supposition that because they r in the private sector they must be good, and the school relies on this to bring in pupils. the event of a teacher being fired for failing to reach an adequate standard could easily destroy a private school which is why you will very rarely hear of a private sector teacher being fired for anything less than gross misconduct.
Reply 66
Thud
absolutely.
It tends to make me want to throw a very heavy rock at their head.
If it's no better why spend thousands of pounds for it? ffs.
It tends to make me want to throw a very heavy rock at their head.
If it's no better why spend thousands of pounds for it? ffs.
because once you have been into the private system transferring back into the state system brings u directly into the firing line of the kind of prejudicial comments that prompted me to start this thread.
Reply 67
flic_pearson
because once you have been into the private system transferring back into the state system brings u directly into the firing line of the kind of prejudicial comments that prompted me to start this thread.
I think most people do agree with you that the prejudice, stereotypical view does not apply to all.
And in your case, maybe you didn't receive any better education but the evidence is stacked pretty high in favour of private schools providing better education.
All sorts of groups get stereotyped in this way and unfortunatly it's a fact of life.
flic_pearson
that just isnt true. i have had teachers consistently throughout the private systems who have failed to teach their subjects adequately. they last for a very long time, simply because of the supposition that because they r in the private sector they must be good, and the school relies on this to bring in pupils. the event of a teacher being fired for failing to reach an adequate standard could easily destroy a private school which is why you will very rarely hear of a private sector teacher being fired for anything less than gross misconduct.
You talk about one school in particular here. Now we've already had another person going to both that completely disagrees with you on that point saying that private school's teaching standard was better. They get an overall better education. You get more practice at interview technique, you get more advice on coursework at private school, just to name a few. Now that counts towards your education whether you like it or not.
Private school, as then claimed by another person who goes there who commented in this thread, was chosen by their parents to get them a better education.
Now you seem to be the only person in this thread that is adamant that you don't. From you starting this thread with a plea of sympathy and your obvious reluctance to even consider over peoples points please answer me why did you start this thread?
I am intrigued to know what you hoped to achieve from your initial post, because in my opinion you have ended up having an adverse effect if you were trying to get certain people to accept the middle class.
Fordyville
I think most people do agree with you that the prejudice, stereotypical view does not apply to all.
And in your case, maybe you didn't receive any better education but the evidence is stacked pretty high in favour of private schools providing better education.
All sorts of groups get stereotyped in this way and unfortunatly it's a fact of life.
And in your case, maybe you didn't receive any better education but the evidence is stacked pretty high in favour of private schools providing better education.
All sorts of groups get stereotyped in this way and unfortunatly it's a fact of life.
Precisely my point from the outset. I have written numerous posts talking about the stereotypes and how they definately don't apply.
I also agree about the evidence being stacked against private schools.
One thing I do agree with flic on is that middle class people are unfairly stereotyped and I also agree that the working envrionment does help considerably and in effect so does the child's decisions in life. But there is no point having confidence, environment and motivation if you just haven't got the teaching standard.
Reply 70
danglenister
You talk about one school in particular here. Now we've already had another person going to both that completely disagrees with you on that point saying that private school's teaching standard was better. They get an overall better education. You get more practice at interview technique, you get more advice on coursework at private school, just to name a few. Now that counts towards your education whether you like it or not.
Private school, as then claimed by another person who goes there who commented in this thread, was chosen by their parents to get them a better education.
Now you seem to be the only person in this thread that is adamant that you don't. From you starting this thread with a plea of sympathy and your obvious reluctance to even consider over peoples points please answer me why did you start this thread?
I am intrigued to know what you hoped to achieve from your initial post, because in my opinion you have ended up having an adverse effect if you were trying to get certain people to accept the middle class.
Private school, as then claimed by another person who goes there who commented in this thread, was chosen by their parents to get them a better education.
Now you seem to be the only person in this thread that is adamant that you don't. From you starting this thread with a plea of sympathy and your obvious reluctance to even consider over peoples points please answer me why did you start this thread?
I am intrigued to know what you hoped to achieve from your initial post, because in my opinion you have ended up having an adverse effect if you were trying to get certain people to accept the middle class.
I'm not sure if any of that did refer to me, but i'd just like to clarify that i haven't actually had any private school experience, just that i would if given the oppurtunity.
But i certainly know through friends especially if you have learning troubles with dyslexia or similar problems that they received a far greater level of help in private school than they would have in the state system.
Fordyville
I'm not sure if any of that did refer to me, but i'd just like to clarify that i haven't actually had any private school experience, just that i would if given the oppurtunity.
But i certainly know through friends especially if you have learning troubles with dyslexia or similar problems that they received a far greater level of help in private school than they would have in the state system.
But i certainly know through friends especially if you have learning troubles with dyslexia or similar problems that they received a far greater level of help in private school than they would have in the state system.
Um, i was quoting flic, so it was sort of directed at her(/him *sorry not entirely sure*). But point taken
Reply 72
Fordyville
But i certainly know through friends especially if you have learning troubles with dyslexia or similar problems that they received a far greater level of help in private school than they would have in the state system.
But i certainly know through friends especially if you have learning troubles with dyslexia or similar problems that they received a far greater level of help in private school than they would have in the state system.
so true. whoever said that a flagging state school pupil will still be bottom of the class if moved to a private school is just wrong in my experience. of course its different for everyone but i for 1 went from being told i was thick and not to even bother taking exams to getting nothing below a B at GSCE (even taking two extra classes). The state system just isnt set up for special needs kids, escpecially if theyre bright.
I'm currently at the local state college, but before that I was at a 15-grand-per-year private school. I genuinely think the education at the college is of a higher standard. My old school used to employ teachers because they were ex-pupils, regardless of their ability. We ended up with a German teacher one year who couldn't speak the language and had never been to Germany in his life. Bear in mind that my college has got "beacon status" or somthing now, so I'm not saying this is the same everywhere. It's just my experience. Given the choice again, I would've still gone to private school, just not the one I went to.
Edit: The state primary I was at probably had higher teaching standards too, come to think of it.
Edit: The state primary I was at probably had higher teaching standards too, come to think of it.
flic_pearson
All I seem to be hearing recently are attacks on people who are deemed to be middle class.
All the university threads seem to make out being middle class and privately educated is a sort of crime and I really dont get it. Quite often middle class students have no more, and possibly less money to live on than so-called 'poorer' students as they don't recieve anywhere near the amount of support from the state be that in the form of grants or even loans.
Furthermore, I really hate people being described as 'rahs' or 'yahs'. Not only does this perpetuate prejudice but it is somewhat unfair to paint such a negative image of people. Whilst some individuals may well be obnoxious and snobby that is not true of the majority. Indeed many of those who are privately educated and from middle class families are decidedly grounded and usually extremely polite and considerate.
So please, try to be less insulting to a group of people. Slag off the individuals you have met who are jerks but dont generalise people like that.
It is no different to someone suggesting that all people who live on a council estate are drug addicts and theives. Categorically untrue and intensely insulting to the majority of that group.
So thats my rant. Please feel free to add to it.
All the university threads seem to make out being middle class and privately educated is a sort of crime and I really dont get it. Quite often middle class students have no more, and possibly less money to live on than so-called 'poorer' students as they don't recieve anywhere near the amount of support from the state be that in the form of grants or even loans.
Furthermore, I really hate people being described as 'rahs' or 'yahs'. Not only does this perpetuate prejudice but it is somewhat unfair to paint such a negative image of people. Whilst some individuals may well be obnoxious and snobby that is not true of the majority. Indeed many of those who are privately educated and from middle class families are decidedly grounded and usually extremely polite and considerate.
So please, try to be less insulting to a group of people. Slag off the individuals you have met who are jerks but dont generalise people like that.
It is no different to someone suggesting that all people who live on a council estate are drug addicts and theives. Categorically untrue and intensely insulting to the majority of that group.
So thats my rant. Please feel free to add to it.
I wouldn't worry about it. It's just pretentious student twaddle. Inverse snobbery is de rigeur in universities - full of people who's daddy's a "Chartered Accountant" putting on mockney accents and fabricating their "working class roots" Truth is, a good day's work would kill most of them off.
Thud
oh stop with the lies.
you get 75% of what the very poorest get, that's £3305 (something like that), you don't need to work all summer and your parents probably aren't that pushed to find the extra 25%. Ok sure, you might have to cut down on the cavier before going out to the very best club in town, and maybe you won't be able to buy all your clothes from Selfriges, but I'm sure you'll get over it eventually.
you get 75% of what the very poorest get, that's £3305 (something like that), you don't need to work all summer and your parents probably aren't that pushed to find the extra 25%. Ok sure, you might have to cut down on the cavier before going out to the very best club in town, and maybe you won't be able to buy all your clothes from Selfriges, but I'm sure you'll get over it eventually.
Wow, the amount of spite and prejudice you seem to have for the middle classes is incredible. I think you've been spending a little too long flicking through old Communist propaganda - it seems to have gone to your head.
NSiky
Wow, the amount of spite and prejudice you seem to have for the middle classes is incredible. I think you've been spending a little too long flicking through old Communist propaganda - it seems to have gone to your head.
Don't worry. Like all communist students (there are 1000's of people afflicted with this mild adolescent condition) Thud will probably wake up just in time to go and study something like finance and accountancy and go on to enjoy a long and rewarding career in banking. It's just a little "stage" she's going through.
Reply 78
flic_pearson
All I seem to be hearing recently are attacks on people who are deemed to be middle class.
All the university threads seem to make out being middle class and privately educated is a sort of crime and I really dont get it. Quite often middle class students have no more, and possibly less money to live on than so-called 'poorer' students as they don't recieve anywhere near the amount of support from the state be that in the form of grants or even loans.
Furthermore, I really hate people being described as 'rahs' or 'yahs'. Not only does this perpetuate prejudice but it is somewhat unfair to paint such a negative image of people. Whilst some individuals may well be obnoxious and snobby that is not true of the majority. Indeed many of those who are privately educated and from middle class families are decidedly grounded and usually extremely polite and considerate.
So please, try to be less insulting to a group of people. Slag off the individuals you have met who are jerks but dont generalise people like that.
It is no different to someone suggesting that all people who live on a council estate are drug addicts and theives. Categorically untrue and intensely insulting to the majority of that group.
So thats my rant. Please feel free to add to it.
All the university threads seem to make out being middle class and privately educated is a sort of crime and I really dont get it. Quite often middle class students have no more, and possibly less money to live on than so-called 'poorer' students as they don't recieve anywhere near the amount of support from the state be that in the form of grants or even loans.
Furthermore, I really hate people being described as 'rahs' or 'yahs'. Not only does this perpetuate prejudice but it is somewhat unfair to paint such a negative image of people. Whilst some individuals may well be obnoxious and snobby that is not true of the majority. Indeed many of those who are privately educated and from middle class families are decidedly grounded and usually extremely polite and considerate.
So please, try to be less insulting to a group of people. Slag off the individuals you have met who are jerks but dont generalise people like that.
It is no different to someone suggesting that all people who live on a council estate are drug addicts and theives. Categorically untrue and intensely insulting to the majority of that group.
So thats my rant. Please feel free to add to it.
To quote my twelve year old cousin:
" It seems to me that the Middle Classes are despised by the poor, for they are ever present proof of what work and effort accomplish, and hated by the rich as a reminder of where they would be without birth and priviledge."
Reply 79
Howard
Don't worry. Like all communist students (there are 1000's of people afflicted with this mild adolescent condition) Thud will probably wake up just in time to go and study something like finance and accountancy and go on to enjoy a long and rewarding career in banking. It's just a little "stage" she's going through.
I remember my socialist stage..... *reminiscing* It involved a whole lot of me wanting what everyone else had.
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