Sorry, not everyone is beautiful!

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Dr. Robert
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Recently, I've seen loads of campaigns on the internet that are trying to tackle body issues many people -- mainly women from what I see -- have today.

While I agree everyone should feel comfortable with the way they look, they often preach the message "everyone is beautiful" and this is where I have an issue...

NO THEY'RE NOT.

I'm sorry, I know it sounds harsh, but this cannot be true. Not every person in the world is physically beautiful (or beautiful on the inside, but we're focusing on physical beauty here).

The statement is absolutely ridiculous -- no one would claim every person is highly intelligent, every man has a huge ****, every women has perfect breasts or everyone is amazing at sports. It just cannot be the case.

I agree beauty is relative and subjective, but I think people need to stop saying "everyone's beautiful" and start saying "stop caring so much about physical beauty" and "make the best of who you are" and "just try and be comfortable with what you've got".

Also, whilst I agree women and men should not be sexually objectified, it is in our human nature to do so. As a heterosexual man, I cannot help viewing some women in a sexual way (and being attracted too them). This does not mean I treat them as an object, etc. it's just a part of human sexuality -- which if no body has noticed, is kinda why we're all sitting here today.

What does everyone think about these campaigns? Is "everyone beautiful", or are these campaigns just creating more damage by playing in to the necessity of physical beauty in society in a silly way rather than out reject it?
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Chlorophile
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You clearly don't agree that beauty is subjective because if you did, you wouldn't be attacking people for saying "Everyone is beautiful". If someone believes that, who are you to tell them they can't? You might not believe it and most people probably don't. But you are not in charge of setting the definition for what's beautiful and what isn't, so you've completely contradicted yourself.
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paradoxicalme
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Beauty is entirely subjective. Ergo, everyone is beautiful, because beauty is an individual interpretation. What you mean is that not everyone conforms to societal ideals of beauty, i.e. slim, clear skin, no physical disability, symmetrical face.
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MASTER265
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You are right, it's a fact in life some people are beautiful, some average, some ugly, just based on luck
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Green Marble
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(Original post by paradoxicalme)
Beauty is entirely subjective. Ergo, everyone is beautiful, because beauty is an individual interpretation. What you mean is that not everyone conforms to societal ideals of beauty, i.e. slim, clear skin, no physical disability, symmetrical face.
I would say it is far more objective than you think
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QueenC_87
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beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so technically everyone can be beautiful to at least one person. Therefore everyone is beautiful.

To say that not everybody is beautiful is to define what beautiful is as, otherwise how could you possibly make comparisons, and defining beautiful is impossible as everybody has different interpretations of what beauty is.

Therefore to say everyone is beautiful is correct, because what you might not call beautiful is someone else's definition of beauty.
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pjm600
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(Original post by paradoxicalme)
Beauty is entirely subjective. Ergo, everyone is beautiful, because beauty is an individual interpretation. What you mean is that not everyone conforms to societal ideals of beauty, i.e. slim, clear skin, no physical disability, symmetrical face.
Your conclusion does not follow. Saying everyone is beautiful, even just to one person is unsubstantiated. It's possible, even plausible, that there are people that nobody finds beautiful.
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carlisomes
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hmmm...i don't reckon absolute looks exist, if that makes sense. it's not like some law of nature saying such...

somebody would respond "but some women are JUST FIT!!" true in a way, but then all i'm saying is that we have no way to tell what is objectively good looking or ugly, it's like we can see how the brain responds to attractiveness or something...

This is a ramble, but then I don't get it when people talk of good looking/ugly as absolute points.

and yeah somebody else would reply "symmetrical facial features". OK, the science behind that may be good, but to me i don't usually judge female fitness on face alone, for me it's largely body like boobs, curves, and body proportions than face alone.
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humanb33N
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I sort of agree-yes, beauty is subjective, but there are certain people who are perceived to be beautiful by a majority. Equally, there are certain people who a majority would agree aren't beautiful.
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pjm600
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(Original post by Ciaralouise15)
beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so technically everyone can be beautiful to at least one person. Therefore everyone is beautiful.
No, that's not a valid argument. 'can be' cannot be substituted with 'is'. While it's possible that everybody has someone who finds them beautiful, that does not mean to say that there is someone who find them beautiful.
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yo radical one
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I agree

not everyone is beautiful, but beauty is not something which a person should have to posses in order for you to be able to get along with them
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QueenC_87
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(Original post by pjm600)
No, that's not a valid argument. 'can be' cannot be substituted with 'is'. While it's possible that everybody has someone who finds them beautiful, that does not mean to say that there is someone who find them beautiful.
I understand what your saying, but I disagree with you sorry. I think there IS atleast somebody out there that would find the ugliest person on the planet beautiful. If you can define what ugly is that is!
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P.Kaur
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This doesn't make sense to me. It makes sense to say that everybody is beautiful (subjective) but perhaps not objectively attractive by societal standards. These are two important, big distinctions.

However, I think you raise a good point. There should be less of an emphasis on wanting to be 'beautiful' to others.
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TurboCretin
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I think it's a sad reflection on society that saying 'not everyone is beautiful' is controversial.

Not everyone is physically beautiful, and that should be okay.
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paradoxicalme
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(Original post by Green Marble)
I would say it is far more objective than you think
Nope, it's completely subjective. What our culture sees as beautiful is wildly different for what a Kenyan tribe might see as beautiful (e.g. elongating their necks and scarring their bellies) or Asian or American or African or Antarctican cultures.

(Original post by pjm600)
Your conclusion does not follow. Saying everyone is beautiful, even just to one person is unsubstantiated. It's possible, even plausible, that there are people that nobody finds beautiful.
If there an infinite number of individual interpretations, it logically follows that everyone has someone who finds them beautiful. Remember, there are people who write to serial killers in jail and become infatuated with them.
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ClickItBack
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(Original post by paradoxicalme)
Nope, it's completely subjective. What our culture sees as beautiful is wildly different for what a Kenyan tribe might see as beautiful (e.g. elongating their necks and scarring their bellies) or Asian or American or African or Antarctican cultures.
It's not completely subjective. There is no culture where someone who is not able to perform sexually is going to be attractive, for example. Likewise I doubt you'd find many cultures where the shorter the man, the more attractive he is considered.

While beauty is certainly influenced by societal norms, there are also underlying biological preferences that are ingrained into us by virtue of millennia of evolutionary pressures.


If there an infinite number of individual interpretations, it logically follows that everyone has someone who finds them beautiful. Remember, there are people who write to serial killers in jail and become infatuated with them.
It doesn't actually follow that just because there are infinitely many individual interpretations, that everyone must have someone who finds them beautiful.
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paradoxicalme
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(Original post by ClickItBack)
It's not completely subjective. There is no culture where someone who is not able to perform sexually is going to be attractive, for example. Likewise I doubt you'd find many cultures where the shorter the man, the more attractive he is considered.

While beauty is certainly influenced by societal norms, there are also underlying biological preferences that are ingrained into us by virtue of millennia of evolutionary pressures.

It doesn't actually follow that just because there are infinitely many individual interpretations, that everyone must have someone who finds them beautiful.
I'm sorry, I didn't realise you had full awareness of the aesthetic traditions of every culture and subculture existent on earth :rolleyes:

Our biological preferences are essentially to go for people with different immune systems who appear healthy and attractive. 'Healthy and attractive' is also culturally subjective - at least in terms of how we view it. In some Japanese/Korean subcultures, girls are sent off to fat camps to eat 10,000 calories a day because stretch marks are seen as sexy.

We can agree to disagree on that.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by Chlorophile)
You clearly don't agree that beauty is subjective because if you did, you wouldn't be attacking people for saying "Everyone is beautiful". If someone believes that, who are you to tell them they can't? You might not believe it and most people probably don't. But you are not in charge of setting the definition for what's beautiful and what isn't, so you've completely contradicted yourself.
It's not a contradiction at all, it's just that there is sometimes a very blurred line between something being objective and subjective.

For instance, I may suck at guitar, but that doesn't change the fact that someone may love my playing. It's subjective. But at the same time, I can only play about three chords so I suck in an objective sense too.

In the same way, someone may have a hideously deformed face, which someone may consider beautiful. But because we are programmed to be attracted to people who appear to have good genes and are healthy, the vast majority of people will be instinctively predesposed to thinking a deformed face is unnattractive. So they would also be objectively unnattactive, as attractiveness and our perception of it is biological and genetic, as well as at the same time being subjective (nature and nurture exist inseparably).

It is a fault in the Western way of thinking (much due to our language) that we believe that concepts such as 'subjective' and 'objective' cannot both exist at once.
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carlisomes
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(Original post by KingBradly)
It's not a contradiction at all, it's just that there is a very blurred line between something being objective and subjective.

For instance, I may suck at guitar, but that doesn't change the fact that someone may love my playing. It's subjective. But at the same time, I can only play about three chords so I suck in an objective sense too.

In the same way, someone may have a hideously deformed face, which someone may consider beautiful. But because we are programmed to be attracted to people who appear to have good genes and are healthy, the vast majority of people will be instinctively predesposed to thinking a deformed face is unnattractive. So they would also be objectively unnattactive, as attractiveness and our perception of it is biological and genetic, as well as at the same time being subjective (nature and nurture exist inseparably).

It is a fault in the Western way of thinking (much due to our language) that we believe that concepts such as 'subjective' and 'objective' cannot both exist at once.
I don't see where she asserted that.

But then in my honest opinion, people oppose the beauty is relative argument because they're scared somebody won't find them attractive. I don't think there is any firm evidence to prove objective beauty. You mention sexual dysfunction, how exactly? This is a Western cultural imperative, as in modern times at least we are very sexualised. I doubt in every culture vaginismus or impotence are viewed as bad other than purely functional reasons.
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KingBradly
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(Original post by carlisomes)
I don't see where she asserted that.

But then in my honest opinion, people oppose the beauty is relative argument because they're scared somebody won't find them attractive. I don't think there is any firm evidence to prove objective beauty. You mention sexual dysfunction, how exactly? This is a Western cultural imperative, as in modern times at least we are very sexualised. I doubt in every culture vaginismus or impotence are viewed as bad other than purely functional reasons.
There cannot be evidence to prove objective beauty, as beauty is by definition subjective. But people can certainly be objectively more attractive than others, and I think this is what the OP is really talking about. People need to deal with the fact that they may not be very attractive, and realise this isn't actually such a big deal. Pretending everyone is equally attractive is nonsense and it doesn't help anything because it just makes attractiveness seem like its much more important than it really is.
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