Even Cottonmouth Disagrees! Watch

cottonmouth
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Dr Syed Aziz Pasha, secretary general of the Union of Muslim Organisations, has been having meetings with Ruth Kelly, Communities Minister, to discuss the ways forward for cohesion between Muslims and non- Muslims in Britain.

He has, apparantly, asked for holidays to mark Muslim festivals, and, scarily, Islamic laws to cover family affairs which would apply only to Muslims. He wasn't "seeking Sharia law for criminal offences but Muslim communities in Britain should be able to operate Islamic codes for marriage and family life"

"In Scotland", he tells us, using a flawed analogy i might add, " they have a separate law. It doesn't mean thEy are not part of the UK. We are asking for IslaMic law which covers marriage and family life."

Labour MP's WITH LARGE MUSLIM COMMUNITIES in their constituencies have expressed concerns about the prssure in Britain for Sharia law. ( Which does perhaps indicate that a large majority of Muslims in Britain don't want it)


Heres the link: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/pol...cle1219289.ece


Now, i defend Islam a lot on here and in public, because i have always felt that a lot of xenophobia comes into the equation, rather than the fictitious "Islamophobia", a silly word bandied around by people who don't stop to consider that Islam, the religion, is rarely attacked, wherEas its followers are. Islam contains no more controversial ideologies than other main religions, although i don't want to segue into an argument about that so.....

This is a story about someone high up in Islamic establishment, getting far enough through red tape to be able to even hold meetings CONSIDERING the introduction of aspects of Sharia law into Britain, which i find terrible. The very fact that meetings are being held suggests that things are going a wee bit too far.

In Britain, we pride ourselves on the fact that we are all equal under the law. Introducing various bits and bobs of other laws to appease people would be disastrous, and would be putting the foot in the door for other things to get through. If someone chooses to reside in Britain, i am strongly in favour of those people accepting and choosing to live by the rules of law. I don't care about cultures and traditions- here, we should be able to do as we please, and follow whatever culture we wish- but when it comes to LAW, there should be no other options but to follow those that have come from a democratic process that we have opted into. Pressure to have parts of it changed so that different people live differently, is ridiculous. Not least because the majority of Muslims living here do NOT want Sharia law, and in fact are here because they wanted to escape it in their original countries.

My theory is that certain MALE strict Muslims are desperate to get it here, because it allows further control of their females, who they don't like to see with too much freedom. Introducing any aspect of Sharia law here would be extremely dangerous for Muslim women here.(Note the focus on family and marriage law).

His Scotland analogy was useless. He was arguing that they have their own laws and are still considered British, so why can't Muslims have their own laws and still be considered British? Firstly, Scotland is a country, not a religion. There is concentration in Scotland, and people choose to live there and adopt the laws that are there. Muslims are spread all over the country, showing a major difference. It breaks even further when you consider that Scottish people in England have to follow English, rather than Scottish, law. Fine, if you want to follow Scottish law, you can go and live in Scotland. If you want to live by English law, you can live in England. If you want to live by Sharia law, you must go and find a country where it exists.

We cannot have this cutting and pasting of different laws, which would only confuse people, alienate people, further show our differences making integration harder, and potentailly oppress the many Muslims here who came here solely for more freedom.

Who else find it scary that the government are even willing to discuss aspects of Sharia law being introduced, rather than shouting a resounding "NO!"?
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Captain Scarlet
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I am very sure i said this would happen and i was ridiculed, now look!!!! Even though its not final, and shouldnt be, its again the minority of muslims giving the rest a bad name by trying to force foreign laws through parliament.
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Laika
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No religious authorities should have a voice in government as far as I'm concerned. If I was the Muslim community right now, I'd be doing everything possible to avoid negative publicity and the limelight in general.
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bohemian
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If these laws were introduced, do you think any/many Muslims would object to them? I don't see why they are necessary to be honest. If Muslims, or people of any other religion, feel that they should follow their religion's teachings as regards family law or whatever, that's cool, but why do they need it to be a legal requirement? Can't they just...do it anyway? Otherwise, I don't see why any one religion should be singled out for this treatment. Seems like religious discrimination to me, funny because you hear enough complaints from Muslims (often rightly so) about them being discriminated against.
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Captain Scarlet
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By all means give muslims some kind of voice but this isnt the way to become "equal" it is just segregating them more.
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ChemistBoy
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The analogy with Scottish Law is patently absurd, even granted that Scots Law has a more civil basis than English Law but the end outcome is practically the same and is all superceded by modern UK legislation and European Law. Instituting Sharia Law even only in civil cases would cause direct conflict with existing laws and would jeopardise the entire legal system as the end outcome of sharia law is so drastically different to that of UK law. Also if it is allowed that Sharia law is taken on in certain cases what is to stop the extention of this application to ever increasing areas of law?

I sincerely hope that Ruth Kelly dismissed this is as nonsense as I would expect any right-thinking UK citizen to do. It is clear that Dr Pasha is not doing his job properly in representing muslims in britain and doing what is best for them (not suprising considering he has no popular mandate) and seeks to segregate them further and increase the tensions that lead to fundamentalism. I consider anyone suggesting what Dr Pasha has suggested as a danger to our society and certainly not someone who should be representing anyone on a wider scale.

I would, however be demanding parliament through my MP, should any such law be put to them, to have a vote of no confidence in the government.
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Andronicus Comnenus
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I think all religious holidays should be celebrated, personally.
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ChemistBoy
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(Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
I think all religious holidays should be celebrated, personally.
They are in the Roman Empire aren't they?
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L i b
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I appreciate his sentiments, but I believe he is looking from it from the wrong angle.

Government shouldn't have different laws for Muslims and Christians for social issues, it shouldn't have laws on social issues.
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Captain Scarlet
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(Original post by Andronicus Comnenus)
I think all religious holidays should be celebrated, personally.
Yea sure they should be celebrated, but we dont need legislation to tell people to. Im sure there is a law which says people can take time of work for religious holidays, which includes muslims.
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1013
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Worrying indeed. What's next, Catholic-inspired laws prohibiting the use of contraception?
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Andronicus Comnenus
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(Original post by luton666)
Yea sure they should be celebrated, but we dont need legislation to tell people to. Im sure there is a law which says people can take time of work for religious holidays, which includes muslims.
Yes we do! If we had all o fthe Catholic Saints days off, we'd never need to work again!
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Thud
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(Original post by 1013)
Worrying indeed. What's next, Catholic-inspired laws prohibiting the use of contraception?
and abortion.


This is bloody ridiculous tbh.
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Beekeeper
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As someone concerned about preserving civil liberties and freedom, I find the words "Sharia law" absolutely repulsive. We could not even begin to estimate the grave implications for women, gays and other victims of religious indoctrination. Is Labour really prepared to stoop to this level, pandering to religious moral busybodies?

We're going to end up like America, only with Islam rather than Christianity taking centre stage in politics.

If these muslims don't get their act together then they're going to fuel more racism, paving the way for the BNP. I don't really think this 'pressure' could come at a more ridiculous time.
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Captain Scarlet
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Hands up all those who want a law passed to have saint days off *raises hand*
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Chrism
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#16
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If people were subject to it voluntarily most of my main objections to it would be diminished though I'd still not exactly be in favour of it. Not something I'd personally go for if for example there an equivalent for myself (though the hilarity of having different courts for Anglicans, Catholics, Unitarians, Methodists etc. would be priceless).
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L i b
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Interestingly there is some status already given to other religions in terms of family law etc. For example, in Scotland there was a case where a marriage was held a sham on the grounds that it was a civil ceremony between two practising Muslims and obviously wasn't recognised as a 'marriage' by them or their peers.

Again, these are the sort of situations law should stay out of.
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kizer
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So the solution to Islamic extremism is to give it exactly what it wants, thus confirming we are willing to give in to any demands.

Hitler anyone?
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Iago
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#19
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You people are talking as if Ruth Kelly phoned Blair straight after the meeting, urging him to immedietly implement sharia law.

This is a free country, people are allowed to hold opinions, and people are allowed to convey those opinions to governments. Even if the opinion is that this shouldn't be a free country. A democratic government ought liase with various communities and interest groups that makeup the electorate - hear them out, see what they want, what the picture is.

Ruth Kelly had a meeting with a senior Muslim to talk about something which is very important right now - the way forward for Muslims and non-Muslims living together in Britain. He made some rather extreme suggestions, as is to be expected. What's wrong here? Nothing. If Labour put Sharia Law on their manifesto, then something will have gone majorly wrong. Then, I'll agree with you guys. Until then, a lot of comments in this thread are just bizzarely paranoid - reactions to events that are not happening.

Cottonmouth, if you were going to agree with 'them' on anything, you could have picked something better than this. Governments talk to various communities and interest groups all the time, some a lot more wacky and fringe than Islam. They don't meet with them to register and fulfil their demands. This is the government, guys, usually the meeting is set up as a way of politely ignoring the demands.
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Alasdair
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#20
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Yeah, I read this article. I don't agree either.

However, maybe incorporating one of the more important Muslim festivals as a national Holiday might be an idea...maybe if there's one at a time of year when we don't have many anyway (between August Bank Holiday and Christmas, say?).
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