Who is really responsible for fear of immigrants? Watch

Falcatas
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Of course many of the apparently right-on thinking people will claim that it is the rise of UKIP that has caused fear about immigration.
Some will also blame the tabloids for creating these scare stories.


However, what about the Labour Party? Could they be responsible as well?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2...ties-elections

"Ten years ago this week, on 1 May 2004, Poland joined the European Union along with seven other eastern European countries. The UK was one of just three member states that allowed the new EU citizens immediately to work without restriction within its borders, with the then Labour government estimating that around 13,000 Poles would move to the UK."

Of course these predicted numbers were wrong by a factor of 10, regardless Poles enjoyed the right to be able to move and work in Britain without any restriction.

What happened in 2007? Romanian and Bulgaria both joined the EU, however unlike Poland there were restrictions to the freedom of movement from these countries. (By the apparently pro-immigration Labour).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7069129.stm

So unlike the Poles, the Romanians and Bulgarias were treated like 2nd class (European) citizens. They did not have the same freedom of movement that those from Poland and other European countries enjoyed.

Since the start of 2014 these restrictions have been lifted.

The conclusion is that if you genuinely support the right of free movement of people then you should criticise all the parties not just UKIP.

Neither Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems or UKIP are anti-immigration, rather they are all pro-controlled immigration (in varying degrees of course). None of them are for open borders however.

It seems more people are focusing on criticising UKIP's immigration policy but not the other parties and more importantly not arguing for a open border policy. (If that is what they believe).
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Green Marble
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The british people can see what immigration has done to their communities themselves
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zippity.doodah
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immigration itself, perhaps? these things have consequences
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Bloxorus
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The fact that some parts of London are now unrecognisable as the uk...


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Green Marble
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(Original post by zippity.doodah)
immigration itself, perhaps? these things have consequences
Exactly, the left will have you believe that being for controlled immigration is irrational, hysterical and only someone who brainwashed would support it.

this is exactly why people have turned to ukip
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UKRS
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In reality Labour, Lib Dems and the Conservatives are all for 'open borders' across the EU. That stance to me seems ridiculous and, it itself, discriminatory.

Assuming you are pro open-borders and free movement of people you'd be in support of it globally, yet the current policy means anyone from any EU country is free to come to Britain yet those from countries outside the EU are restricted - essentially discriminated against - based on their skills. If you support controlled immigration it would actually arguably be more open and more accepting to leave the EU and allow British law to determine immigration to Britain, whereby someone from India or Australia or Pakistan would be on an even playing field with someone from Italy or France or Bulgaria and would be allowed in on a work-permit determined on quality and quantity. It seems to me the current position leaves Britain 'stuck in the middle' discriminating against those outside the EU in favour of those inside.
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zippity.doodah
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(Original post by Green Marble)
Exactly, the left will have you believe that being for controlled immigration is irrational, hysterical and only someone who brainwashed would support it.

this is exactly why people have turned to ukip
my biggest problem with the establishment is that they condescend to people and tell them that not voting for them is racist~. they've kept up this kind of message and it has hilariously backfired, especially with david cameron calling them closet racists and then ironically copying their policies in the end
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Green Marble
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(Original post by zippity.doodah)
my biggest problem with the establishment is that they condescend to people and tell them that not voting for them is racist~. they've kept up this kind of message and it has hilariously backfired, especially with david cameron calling them closet racists and then ironically copying their policies in the end
People are wise of it and they are sick of the word racism now. Racism simply means someone who supports controlled immigration. It is a meaningless word now
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zippity.doodah
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(Original post by Green Marble)
People are wise of it and they are sick of the word racism now. Racism simply means someone who supports controlled immigration. It is a meaningless word now
I completely agree - the fact that the wind is blowing in the direction of "being against large scale immigration or being against the immigration of certain poor countries is racism" has actually damaged the cause of fighting literal racism, e.g. being against people of different skin colours, because people now don't think of racism as nearly as serious as it once was - if we called everybody who was nationalistic, for example, a nazi, we'd soon forget about how nazism was actually a terrible thing based on how it would become so normalised in our vocabulary without an actual perspective of how it is actually negative
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Falcatas
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(Original post by UKRS)
In reality Labour, Lib Dems and the Conservatives are all for 'open borders' across the EU. That stance to me seems ridiculous and, it itself, discriminatory.

Assuming you are pro open-borders and free movement of people you'd be in support of it globally, yet the current policy means anyone from any EU country is free to come to Britain yet those from countries outside the EU are restricted - essentially discriminated against - based on their skills. If you support controlled immigration it would actually arguably be more open and more accepting to leave the EU and allow British law to determine immigration to Britain, whereby someone from India or Australia or Pakistan would be on an even playing field with someone from Italy or France or Bulgaria and would be allowed in on a work-permit determined on quality and quantity. It seems to me the current position leaves Britain 'stuck in the middle' discriminating against those outside the EU in favour of those inside.

Exactly I do agree with that.

I only would be pro open borders on economic libertarian arguments. I am aware in the current system we are in this is not plausible.

Cultural criticisms of immigration I can sympathise with.

In the current situation I agree UKIP's policy is better than one that discriminates against others for their nationality.
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UKRS
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(Original post by Falcatas)
Exactly I do agree with that.

I only would be pro open borders on economic libertarian arguments. I am aware in the current system we are in this is not plausible.

Cultural criticisms of immigration I can sympathise with.

In the current situation I agree UKIP's policy is better than one that discriminates against others for their nationality.
I think when you live in a high pay high skill economy immigration isn't an issue, much like it wasn't when we were allowing those from countries similar to us economically to come here - like France and Germany. But uncontrolled immigration, especially when we're still suffering high youth unemployment in particular, is unviable in reality.

(Oh, and the whole 'UKIP are racist' argument can be contradicted by showing UKIP's ethnic minority candidates/ representatives - why would they join a racist party? This guy is one example and he's very funny, this interview had me laughing quite a bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3Un_pI9shM)
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